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Re: How many people switch off javascript?

for

From: Jon Gunderson
Date: Aug 31, 2004 6:55AM

Another arguement is that people are using a wider range of
technologies to access the web. Designing using standards and
markup that can adapt a wide range of technologies and user
needs makes their website more flexible and compatible with
new technologies. Some people call this "forward Looking
Design". One major example is dot pitch on computer monitors
is getting smaller (more dots per inch of screen). Web pages
that uses images for styling and pixels for layout of content
are slowly shrinking in size, whether you have a disability or
not! So one arguement is you need to have web resources that
can easily adapt.

You could also argue that instead of worrying about pull down
menu, put the money into usability testing to see how real
people use the site and optimize the user experience.

Here is a link to a "Best Practices" document we are working
at UIUC on implement what we call "User Centered Web Design".
http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/uiuc-web-best-practices.htm

Jon


---- Original message ----
>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 13:40:55 +0100
>From: "victoria.hamill"
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] How many people switch off javascript?
>To: "WebAIM Discussion List"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Sounds like just what I need, and I will absolutely check
this out, thanks
>a lot for your help Chris.
>
>Victoria
>-----------------------------------------------------
>Victoria Hamill
>NetInfo
>Phone: (44) 1628-687863
>Email: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>URL: http://www.netinfo.com
> - More than meets the eye
>
>
>

> "lists38"

> <lists@onlinetool

> s.org>
To
> "WebAIM Discussion
List"
> 31/08/2004 13:26

>
cc
> "WebAIM Discussion
List"
> Please respond to

> "WebAIM
Subject
> Discussion List" Re: [WebAIM] How many
people switch
> <webaim-forum@lis off javascript?

> t.webaim.org>

>

>

>

>

>

>
>
>
>
>
>
>For a rather clean example:
>http://www.onlinetools.org/tests/dropdownul.html
>works with keyboard and mouse, and hides the sub menus via
applying a
>class called "h" (for script shortening reasons) to them, and
shows them
>by replacing this class "h" with "s", in case you want to
style the shown
>menu.
>The navigation UL needs the ID "nav" and automatically finds
nested ULS.
>
>HTH
>
>Chris
>
>
>
>
>> The situation is that there are 4 levels in the hierarchy,
and they
>wanted
>> at least one drop down.
>>
>> My menu code uses javascript to generate the whole thing,
with the effect
>> that if javascript is turned off it loads nothing, hence
the need for a
>> duplicate menu in noscript tags as back-up.
>> It hadn't occurred to me to load it as a list, and then
just add some
>> javascript and CSS to act on it afterwards to control the
appearance of
>> it.
>> As you say, this would have the effect that by default it
is still
>> generating the links, which is still perfectly accessible.
This is an
>> option I might explore some more, so thanks for the
pointer. I won't need
>> one built for me though, but thanks for the offer of
assistance :-)
>>
>> I'm a bit disappointed in the 5% rate cited by Sandy, I had
a real
>feeling
>> it was much higher than that! I have plenty of other
arguments against
>the
>> text-only version though, particularly now I have some more
ideas on how
>> to
>> create the menu to play with :-)
>>
>> Victoria
>> -----------------------------------------------------
>> Victoria Hamill
>> NetInfo
>> Phone: (44) 1628-687863
>> Email: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> URL: http://www.netinfo.com
>> - More than meets the eye
>>
>>
>>
>> "lists38"
>> <lists@onlinetool
>> s.org>
>To
>> "WebAIM Discussion List"
>> 31/08/2004 12:33

>>
>cc
>>
>> Please respond to
>Subject
>> "WebAIM Re: [WebAIM] How
many people
>switch
>> Discussion List" off javascript?
>> <webaim-forum@lis
>> t.webaim.org>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Some more information might help.
>>
>> How many levels should your navigation have? Recommended is
one popup
>> level tops, as otherwise it'll be a mouse-pointer nightmare.
>>
>> I could do a version for you if needed. Generally I pray
that anybody
>> using or offering DHTML menus to clients should very well
know how to do
>> them and what their drawbacks are. document.write
browsersniffing scripts
>> must die quickly and get burried deep in the woods.
>>
>>
>>> Thanks to both of you for these pointers.
>>> The only way I've ever managed to get a collapsible menu
to work is
>>> through
>>> javascript, and the code I use is a massive javascript
file that is
>>> required even in order to load up the menu items. I have
used
>>> tags to enclose a tabular menu in the past, but I'm not
doing that
>> anymore
>>> as it simply loads 2 massive menus instead of one!
>>> I'll take a look at these examples to see if there is
anything I can
>> glean
>>> from them to build a better menu, which may help whether I
can convince
>>> our
>>> client to do without the text-based site or not!
>>>
>>> Victoria
>>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>> Victoria Hamill
>>> NetInfo
>>> Phone: (44) 1628-687863
>>> Email: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>> URL: http://www.netinfo.com
>>> - More than meets the eye
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "lists38"
>>> <lists@onlinetool
>>> s.org>
>> To
>>> "WebAIM Discussion
List"
>>> 31/08/2004 12:05

>>>
>> cc
>>> "WebAIM Discussion
List"
>>> Please respond to

>>> "WebAIM
>> Subject
>>> Discussion List" Re: [WebAIM] How
many people
>> switch
>>> <webaim-forum@lis off javascript?
>>> t.webaim.org>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That would make a lot more sense if they were turned off
the first time,
>>> though.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi Victoria,
>>>>
>>>> I don't have any numbers but one solution you can suggest
is to include
>>> an
>>>> option to switch JavaScript menus on and off. An example
can be found
>>>> at
>>>>
http://www.darlington.gov.uk/Generic/Profiles/Visitors.htm.
That way
>>>> the
>>>> client gets what they want and the user gets to the content!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks, Henny
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: victoria.hamill [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
>>>> Sent: 31 August 2004 11:06
>>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>>>> Subject: [WebAIM] How many people switch off javascript?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> One of our clients has requested a text-only version of
his website so
>>>> that
>>>> he can avoid thinking about accessibility on his main
site. I'm trying
>>>> to
>>>> put together a list of arguments against this as I
completely disagree
>>>> with
>>>> the whole notion of building a flat and lifeless
alternative because
>>>> you
>>>> want to have a whizzy menu etc. on the main one. I know
that the idea
>>>> of
>>>> text-only is unpopular among people here as I've seen a
lot of outrage
>>>> whenever it is mentioned.
>>>>
>>>> One of my arguments is to be the number of people who
switch off
>>>> javascript
>>>> when they view sites, thus making the use of javascript
as a navigation
>>>> tool unreliable. I believe this number is quite high, and
is far from
>>>> restricted to people with disabilities, but was wondering
if there was
>>>> a
>>>> resource anyone knew of where I could find a statistic?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Victoria
>>>> -----------------------------------------------------
>>>> Victoria Hamill
>>>> NetInfo
>>>> Phone: (44) 1628-687863
>>>> Email: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>>> URL: http://www.netinfo.com
>>>> - More than meets the eye
>>>>
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>>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit
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>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Chris Heilmann
>>> The mighty pen: http://icant.co.uk/
>>> Learn to let go! http://ltlg.icant.co.uk
>>> Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/
>>>
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>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit
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>>
>>
>> --
>> Chris Heilmann
>> The mighty pen: http://icant.co.uk/
>> Learn to let go! http://ltlg.icant.co.uk
>> Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/
>>
>> ----
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit
http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>>
>> ----
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit
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>>
>
>
>--
>Chris Heilmann
>The mighty pen: http://icant.co.uk/
>Learn to let go! http://ltlg.icant.co.uk
>Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/
>
>----
>To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit
http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
>----
>To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit
http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>


Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
MC-574
College of Applied Life Studies
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL 61820

Voice: (217) 244-5870
Fax: (217) 333-0248

E-mail: <EMAIL REMOVED>

WWW: http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/
WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund