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Re: CSS Live Region

for

From: Christine Hogenkamp
Date: Jul 31, 2024 12:27PM

Hi Dean,

I am confused, Patrick answered the question which is included in the email
that I replied to as part of my reply and he included two links as
references for more info, perhaps you missed it? Sarah Higley and Adrian
Roselli are powerhouse accessibility experts, I wouldn't dream of trying to
top either of them.

*x*
*Christine Hogenkamp (She, Her)*
Front-end Developer
Context Creative – a Mod Op company
416.972.1439 | contextcreative.com


On Wed, Jul 31, 2024 at 2:00 PM < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
wrote:

>
> From: " <EMAIL REMOVED> " < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2024 21:16:51 +0000
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] CSS Live Region
> Christine,
> I hear both you and Patrick and I appreciate that and I can and will stop
> doing it.
> However, neither of you have offered a solution to this list to the issue
> that has been posed.
> So I accept your constructive criticism. However, what is the answer to
> the issue?
> Dean Vasile
>
>
> 617-799-1162
>
> > On Jul 30, 2024, at 4:20 PM, Christine Hogenkamp <
> <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> > I agree with Patrick, I don't think we are serving the members of this
> > mailing list by normalizing asking AI apps questions about accessibility,
> > since they are not search engines nor encyclopedia type resources but
> just
> > generate text based on statistical likelihood of the next word in the
> > sentence. A lot of bad advice or incorrect info can be given by accident
> > just by missing a word like "not" etc. especially as answers to questions
> > posed by people who don't yet have the expertise to evaluate the answer
> for
> > accuracy.
> >
> > *x*
> > *Christine Hogenkamp (She, Her)*
> > Front-end Developer
> > Context Creative – a Mod Op company
> > 416.972.1439 | contextcreative.com
> >
> >
> >> On Tue, Jul 30, 2024 at 2:00 PM < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >> From: "Patrick H. Lauke" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> >> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >> Cc:
> >> Bcc:
> >> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2024 16:55:10 +0100
> >> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] CSS Live Region
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 30/07/2024 15:46, <EMAIL REMOVED> wrote:
> >>> My consulted Gemini.
> >>
> >> A small "can we stop this kind of crap answer? If you don't know the
> >> answer, asking some spicy autocomplete instead won't help capture the
> >> actual nuance required". This isn't "let me AI this for you" as a
> >> service here...
> >>
> >> And indeed, while the short answer here is that no, you wouldn't
> >> normally call it a live region, the fact that your currently focused
> >> element is dynamically changing will have repercussions for whether or
> >> not assistive technologies will announce the change. Just setting
> >> `aria-pressed` here is not necessarily the answer either, as you then
> >> get into weird double-negative-style announcements as well. See Have a
> >> read through https://sarahmhigley.com/writing/playing-with-state/
> >>
> >> And yes, one "trick" to make the dynamic change of the label for the
> >> currently focused control announce consistently sometimes *does* involve
> >> making the control itself a tiny live region. See
> >>
> >>
> https://adrianroselli.com/2020/12/be-careful-with-dynamic-accessible-names.html
> >>
> >> P
> >> --
> >> Patrick H. Lauke
> >>
> >> * https://www.splintered.co.uk/
> >> * https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> >> * https://flickr.com/photos/redux/
> >> * https://mastodon.social/@patrick_h_lauke
> >>
> >>
> > > > > > > > >
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: "Patrick H. Lauke" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2024 22:32:16 +0100
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] CSS Live Region
> On 30/07/2024 22:16, <EMAIL REMOVED> wrote:
> > Christine,
> > I hear both you and Patrick and I appreciate that and I can and will
> stop doing it.
> > However, neither of you have offered a solution to this list to the
> issue that has been posed.
> > So I accept your constructive criticism. However, what is the answer to
> the issue?
>
> If you go back to my reply, there's explanation plus two links for the
> OP's consideration - which will guide them to whichever approach they
> deem most appropriate.
>
> >>> Just setting
> >>> `aria-pressed` here is not necessarily the answer either, as you then
> >>> get into weird double-negative-style announcements as well. See Have a
> >>> read through https://sarahmhigley.com/writing/playing-with-state/
> >>>
> >>> And yes, one "trick" to make the dynamic change of the label for the
> >>> currently focused control announce consistently sometimes *does*
> involve
> >>> making the control itself a tiny live region. See
> >>>
> >>>
> https://adrianroselli.com/2020/12/be-careful-with-dynamic-accessible-names.html
>
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> * https://www.splintered.co.uk/
> * https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> * https://flickr.com/photos/redux/
> * https://mastodon.social/@patrick_h_lauke
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: " <EMAIL REMOVED> " < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2024 21:35:03 +0000
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] CSS Live Region
> Thank you for that.
> Because this will also help me learn I appreciate it
> Dean Vasile
>
>
> 617-799-1162
>
> > On Jul 30, 2024, at 5:32 PM, Patrick H. Lauke < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> wrote:
> >
> > On 30/07/2024 22:16, <EMAIL REMOVED> wrote:
> >> Christine,
> >> I hear both you and Patrick and I appreciate that and I can and will
> stop doing it.
> >> However, neither of you have offered a solution to this list to the
> issue that has been posed.
> >> So I accept your constructive criticism. However, what is the answer to
> the issue?
> >
> > If you go back to my reply, there's explanation plus two links for the
> OP's consideration - which will guide them to whichever approach they deem
> most appropriate.
> >
> >>>> Just setting
> >>>> `aria-pressed` here is not necessarily the answer either, as you then
> >>>> get into weird double-negative-style announcements as well. See Have a
> >>>> read through https://sarahmhigley.com/writing/playing-with-state/
> >>>>
> >>>> And yes, one "trick" to make the dynamic change of the label for the
> >>>> currently focused control announce consistently sometimes *does*
> involve
> >>>> making the control itself a tiny live region. See
> >>>>
> >>>>
> https://adrianroselli.com/2020/12/be-careful-with-dynamic-accessible-names.html
> >
> > --
> > Patrick H. Lauke
> >
> > * https://www.splintered.co.uk/
> > * https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> > * https://flickr.com/photos/redux/
> > * https://mastodon.social/@patrick_h_lauke
> >
> > > > > > > > >
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Jon Metz < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> To: " <EMAIL REMOVED> " < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Cc:
> Bcc:
> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2024 17:08:13 +0000
> Subject: [WebAIM] PDF Reading order question
> Howdy,
>
> I have a reading order question for y'all. It's not life-or-death, but I'm
> having a disagreement with an accessibility vendor (with accessibility
> experts I know and respect, FWIW). As I have ASD, it's difficult for me to
> know if I'm wrong or overthinking my opinion on how to handle this
> situation.
>
> Physically, the PDF is like this:
>
> Page 1
> H1
> H2
> Content Label
> Content
>
> H2
> Content Label
> Content
>
> Company Logo on the left, social links on the right, company website under
> the social links
>
> Page 2:
> H2
> Content Label
> Content
>
> H2
> Content Label
> Content
>
> Disclaimer
> Copyright info
>
> My question is, how would you tag the Content Labels, and would you tag
> the document to represent the physical presentation of content; or would
> you structure the document another way? Does doing one way or the other
> break any accessibility rules (for WCAG 2x or PDF/UA-1) you can think of?
>
> I look forward to hearing your opinion!
>
> Thanks,
> Jon Metz
>
> (Thoughts on this list are mine alone and do not necessarily represent the
> views of Delta Dental of California or its affiliates)
>
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