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From: Philip Kiff
Date: Jul 21, 2025 11:56AM

Hopefully you won't let all the detail overwhelm you (!).

I don't know the reader within Canvas.

I don't *think* that the built-in Read Aloud reader in Edge reads PDF tags.

I wouldn't call those built-in readers sub-standard exactly. Those
readers DO actually meet the needs of some users - low literacy users,
second-language readers, folks whose hands are occupied, and some
disabled folks with visual impairments. But they aren't full-fledged
screen readers and can't deliver a full PDF experience for everyone.
Folks who are blind will usually need a full, proper screen reader
because they need it not only to browse the web but to interact with the
computer itself. And that last group of folks definitely also need to
access the full, properly tagged PDF for a fully accessible experience,
which is currently only delivered by a proper screen reader.

Phil.

The <Reference> tag can be followed directly by the <Note>

On 2025-07-21 1:24 p.m., Paul Rittman via WebAIM-Forum wrote:
> Thanks, Phil.
>
> I'll look through your that post that you linked to. Right now I definitely need more detail than I already know, which is only that I don't know how to get this right. So I do appreciate your link, and your direct reply to me. I just kind of assumed that Adobe's feature would be a standard, but I guess that is not correct. I'll work through that post of yours, and then come back here if I have any questions (undboubtedly I will).
>
> As an aside, I've been recommending to my students, the Canvas (a learning management system that many schools use) built-in screen reader, which is available on Canvas pages with a lot of text; and also, Microsoft Edge browser's screen reader.
>
> Are those two also, sub-standard?
> > From: WebAIM-Forum< <EMAIL REMOVED> > on behalf of Philip Kiff via WebAIM-Forum< <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Sent: Monday, July 21, 2025 9:50 AM
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Cc: Philip Kiff< <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Working with footnotes (reference & note tags) in a PDF
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> Creating accessible Footnotes in a PDF can be a real challenge! And
> there is some disagreement about the best way, even amongst those with
> lots of experience.
>
> I haven't seen your PDF: this mailing list strips off attached files
> before sending out mail. But here are a few tips and notes.
>
> One problem you may be having is that you are testing with Adobe
> Acrobat's "Read Out Loud" feature instead of testing with a proper
> screen reader. The Read Out Loud feature does not actually read the
> "tags" that you've added to make your PDF accessible. Only proper screen
> readers, like NVDA or JAWS process the accessible tags in a PDF.
>
> The blog post you cite from Crawford Tech looks mostly correct to me.
> You might also want to consult the PDF Association's free "Tagged PDF
> Best Practice Guide: Syntax", which discusses the best way to tag
> References (Footnotes) at 4.2.9 on page 38:
> https://pdfa.org/resource/tagged-pdf-best-practice-guide-syntax/
>
> It is sometimes possible to make a PDF read correctly in both a proper
> screen reader as well as in Adobe's Read Out Loud. But when first
> starting out with PDF accessibility, I would recommend focusing on how
> to apply and order tags to the PDF correctly so that proper screen
> readers can read the file. You can work on improving the accessibility
> for other assistive technologies later.
>
> To help with this, you might want to try the free PAC (PDF Accessibility
> Checker) Tool if you haven't already. It will check your PDF against
> many basic tagging requirements, and it also has a very helpful "Screen
> Reader Preview" feature that will read your tags and order to show how
> screen readers will read your file content, even if you don't have an
> actual screen reader installed:
> https://pac.pdf-accessibility.org/en
>
> Finally, in April on this forum there was a discussion about the best
> way to tag Reference/Note tags. Someone wrote a really overly long and
> overly detailed explanation of the technical details. This post may be
> overwhelming for someone new, but you may want to bookmark it for later
> reference....or not!:
> https://webaim.org/discussion/mail_message?id=50800
>
> Phil.
>
> Philip Kiff
> D4K Communications
>
> On 2025-07-18 11:23 p.m., Paul Rittman via WebAIM-Forum wrote:
>> This is my first post here, I'm not sure if this is a proper forum for practical questions about making my documents ADA compliant. If not, sorry, can you steer me in the proper direction?
>>
>> Anyways, I just got through with a summer class helping college instructors properly construct files & web pages in canvas so they can be read with a screen reader, so I'm definitely a beginner here. Anyways, I'm open to suggestions.
>>
>> I have attached a document with a footnote at the end of the first line. I am trying to properly tag this, but after viewing this website (https://crawfordtech.com/blog/making-references-and-footnotes-accessible/),
>> and then trying to have the PDF read in Microsoft Edge screen reader, as well as Adobe Acrobat's screen reader, neither screen reader rendered this document accurately (I want the title read, and then the footnote, and then the first paragraph up at the top of the file). I have attached the file to this email.
>>
>> Am I doing something wrong here? Is there a better webpage to help me figure out how to properly tag these files with footnotes? And at this point, I'm open to hearing that endnotes should be used rather than footnotes, although I'm pretty sure the same problem with rendering the file in a screen reader, would still occur.
>>
>>
>> [Seal of VVC]
>>
>> Paul Rittman,
>> Part Time Faculty | History
>> Victor Valley College
>> 18422 Bear Valley Road
>> Victorville, CA 92395
>> Office: Bldg. 42
>> Email: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> Phone: (760) 245-4271
>>
>> >>