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Re: WebAIM Discussion List Digest 01.11.2004.

for

From: Aimee Ronn
Date: Nov 1, 2004 6:49AM

Dear Annmarie,

Have you seen the article, "Guidelines for Accessible - and Usable - Web
Sites: Observing Users Who Work With Screenreaders," by Mary Frances
Theofanos (National Cancer Institute) and Janice Redish (Redish and Assoc.),
in "Interactions" Nov-Dec 2003, p. 38-50?
They observed 16 blind users using JAWS and WindowEyes, to find out how
blind users work with web sites and to make recommendations for designers
and developers. They discuss accessibility and usability.

Yours,
Aimee Ronn

----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, November 01, 2004 7:02 AM
Subject: WebAIM Discussion List Digest 01.11.2004.


> WebAIM Discussion List Digest 01.11.2004.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Re: WebAIM Discussion List Digest 31.10.2004. (out of the office)
> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 06:04:43 -0700
>
> Hello,
>
> Thank you for your email. I am currently away from the office and will
> answer your email upon my return on Monday, November 8, 2004. If you
> need immediate assistance, contact the main CDWS number at 407-823-3718.
>
>
> Thank you,
> Kitzzy Aviles
>
>>>> webaim-forum 10/31/04 08:00 >>>
>
> WebAIM Discussion List Digest 31.10.2004.
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Re: Web accessibility and usability
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:47:47 -0600
>
> Andrew,
>
> While reviewing www.w3.org/WAI/bcase/benefits.html that you suggested, I
> came across a very helpful table that summarizes checkpoints that
> contribute to different design categories including: usability, public
> search engine, low bandwidth, support low literacy, and semantic web.
>
> Checkpoint 1.1 Provide text equivalent for non-text element was listed
> as contributing to usability, and other categories including public
> search engine and low bandwidth.
>
> I can understand how "alt" attributes benefit search engine results and
> users with low bandwidth, but I wasn't clear on how it is important for
> usability for people without disabilities. Does anyone have opinions on
> this?
>
> It is my hope to demonstrate that accessibility efforts also improve the
> experience of users without disabilities. I'm planning to do some
> usability tests with visually impaired users and then users without
> disabilities.
>
> Would anyone anticipate the presence of "alt" as improving the
> experience of users without disabilities (in terms of any of the metrics
> noted on UsableNet: time, number of errors, success rate, and subjective
> rating)?
>
> Thank you very much for any help that you can offer.
>
> Regards,
> Annmarie
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Andrew Arch
> Date: Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:33 am
> Subject: RE: [WebAIM] Web accessibility and usability
>
>> Hi Annmarie,
>>
>> Don't know of any formal studies (apart from the
>> Microsoft/Forrester one),
>> but many people have written articles on this topic. E.g.:
>> 1.
>> www.webcredible.co.uk/user-friendly-resources/web-
>> accessibility/web-accessib
>> ility-usability.shtml
>> 2. www.w3.org/WAI/bcase/benefits.html
>> 3. http://www.uiaccess.com/upa2000a.html
>> 4. http://ausweb.scu.edu.au/aw02/papers/refereed/arch/index.html
>> 5. http://www.frontend.com/accessibility_paper.html#Usability
>>
>> Andrew
>> _________________________________
>> Dr Andrew Arch
>> Manager Online Accessibility Consulting
>> Accessible Information Solutions, NILS
>> Ph 613 9864 9222; Fax 613 9864 9210; Mobile 0438 755 565
>> http://www.nils.org.au/ | http://www.it-test.com.au/ |
>> http://www.ozewai.org/
>>
>> Member, Education &amp; Outreach Working Group,
>> W3C Web Accessibility Initiative
>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/
>>
>> National Information &amp; Library Service, Australia
>> A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alg230 [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
>> Sent: Sunday, 10 October 2004 5:35 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Web accessibility and usability
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I am in the early stages of a master's thesis. The topic that I
>> would like
>> to explore is how (whether) web accessibility promotes usability by
>> non-disabled users. In other words, I am interested in making a
>> case for
>> how accessibility benefits more than the disabled segment of a web
>> site'scustomer base.
>>
>> For the purposes of a literature survey, I was wondering if anyone
>> might be
>> aware of previous studies that have been completed for this topic.
>> In
>> addition, all opinions are most welcome and very much appreciated.
>> It would
>> be helpful to know in advance whether a study on this topic would
>> be useful
>> to the web accessibility community.
>>
>> Thank you for your time...
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Annmarie Gemma
>> Master's Candidate in Management &amp; Systems
>> New York University
>>
>> ----
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Re[2]: Web accessibility and usability
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 12:56:34 -0600
>
> Saturday, October 30, 2004, 7:47:08 PM, alg230 wrote:
>
>> Would anyone anticipate the presence of "alt" as improving the
>> experience of users without disabilities (in terms of any of the
>> metrics
>> noted on UsableNet: time, number of errors, success rate, and
> subjective rating)?
>
>
> Some people browse the web with images switched off to improve
> loading speed: I do this when I'm using a cellular connection, and
> 3G isn't available.
>
> --
>
> Iain
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Re: Web accessibility and usability
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 13:39:42 -0600
>
> Think cell phones. Think low bandwidth. Think lynx, and other imageless
> browsing experiences.
>
> Also, sometimes I see an image and wonder what it is - a simple mouse
> over
> gives me more information.
> Sometimes I get to a site, and they moved their image directory, or
> wrote
> their JavaScript incorrectly, or have a typo in the code and the image
> just
> doesn't come thru. With an alt tag we are not left wondering.
>
> Many designers code with Dreamweaver. When you change a folder into a
> new
> directory in DW it updates the links to images, but not the image calls
> in
> JavaScript. I often find web pages where the image rollover effect is
> broken
> and the images don't appear. That would be a prime example of when
> having
> an alt tag helps the sited user.
>
> Estelle Weyl
> http://www.EvoTech.net
> 415.845.9906
> Helping make the web accessible since 1999
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alg230 [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 11:47 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Cc: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Web accessibility and usability
>
>
>
> Andrew,
>
> While reviewing www.w3.org/WAI/bcase/benefits.html that you suggested, I
> came across a very helpful table that summarizes checkpoints that
> contribute
> to different design categories including: usability, public search
> engine,
> low bandwidth, support low literacy, and semantic web.
>
> Checkpoint 1.1 Provide text equivalent for non-text element was listed
> as
> contributing to usability, and other categories including public search
> engine and low bandwidth.
>
> I can understand how "alt" attributes benefit search engine results and
> users with low bandwidth, but I wasn't clear on how it is important for
> usability for people without disabilities. Does anyone have opinions on
> this?
>
> It is my hope to demonstrate that accessibility efforts also improve the
> experience of users without disabilities. I'm planning to do some
> usability
> tests with visually impaired users and then users without disabilities.
>
> Would anyone anticipate the presence of "alt" as improving the
> experience of
> users without disabilities (in terms of any of the metrics noted on
> UsableNet: time, number of errors, success rate, and subjective rating)?
>
> Thank you very much for any help that you can offer.
>
> Regards,
> Annmarie
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Andrew Arch
> Date: Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:33 am
> Subject: RE: [WebAIM] Web accessibility and usability
>
>> Hi Annmarie,
>>
>> Don't know of any formal studies (apart from the
>> Microsoft/Forrester one),
>> but many people have written articles on this topic. E.g.:
>> 1.
>> www.webcredible.co.uk/user-friendly-resources/web-
>> accessibility/web-accessib
>> ility-usability.shtml
>> 2. www.w3.org/WAI/bcase/benefits.html
>> 3. http://www.uiaccess.com/upa2000a.html
>> 4. http://ausweb.scu.edu.au/aw02/papers/refereed/arch/index.html
>> 5. http://www.frontend.com/accessibility_paper.html#Usability
>>
>> Andrew
>> _________________________________
>> Dr Andrew Arch
>> Manager Online Accessibility Consulting
>> Accessible Information Solutions, NILS
>> Ph 613 9864 9222; Fax 613 9864 9210; Mobile 0438 755 565
>> http://www.nils.org.au/ | http://www.it-test.com.au/ |
>> http://www.ozewai.org/
>>
>> Member, Education &amp; Outreach Working Group,
>> W3C Web Accessibility Initiative
>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/
>>
>> National Information &amp; Library Service, Australia
>> A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alg230 [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
>> Sent: Sunday, 10 October 2004 5:35 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Web accessibility and usability
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I am in the early stages of a master's thesis. The topic that I
>> would like
>> to explore is how (whether) web accessibility promotes usability by
>> non-disabled users. In other words, I am interested in making a
>> case for
>> how accessibility benefits more than the disabled segment of a web
>> site'scustomer base.
>>
>> For the purposes of a literature survey, I was wondering if anyone
>> might be
>> aware of previous studies that have been completed for this topic.
>> In
>> addition, all opinions are most welcome and very much appreciated.
>> It would
>> be helpful to know in advance whether a study on this topic would
>> be useful
>> to the web accessibility community.
>>
>> Thank you for your time...
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Annmarie Gemma
>> Master's Candidate in Management &amp; Systems
>> New York University
>>
>> ----
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>>
>>
>
> ----
> To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Web accessibility and usability
> Date: Sat, 30 Oct 2004 20:03:36 -0600
>
> Has it been mentioned that search engines pick up what is in the alt
> tag?
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Mike Burks
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: iain [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
> Sent: Saturday, October 30, 2004 2:54 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] Re[2]: Web accessibility and usability
>
>
>
> Saturday, October 30, 2004, 7:47:08 PM, alg230 wrote:
>
>> Would anyone anticipate the presence of "alt" as improving the
>> experience of users without disabilities (in terms of any of the
>> metrics
>> noted on UsableNet: time, number of errors, success rate, and
> subjective
> rating)?
>
>
> Some people browse the web with images switched off to improve
> loading speed: I do this when I'm using a cellular connection, and
> 3G isn't available.
>
> --
>
> Iain
>
> ----
> To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Web accessibility and usability
> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 02:15:43 -0700
>
> Hello Mike,
>
> You wrote:
>> Has it been mentioned that search engines pick up what is in the alt
> tag?
>
> I really don't know what you are meaning. I don't know the existence of
> any alt tag. When you mean the alt-attribute or alt text, than this may
> be interesting.
>
> Greetings
> ineke van der Maat
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Accessibility evaluation practices - online survey
> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 03:58:35 -0700
>
> [Apologies for cross-posting]
>
> I'm interested in learning more about the ways in which accessibility
> practitioners (of all shapes and sizes) approach web accessibility
> evaluation.
>
> To this end I've set up an online survey that I hope those of you
> working in this area will take the time to complete. I will summarise
> the results and make them available to the list.
>
> Cheers,
> Dey
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Accessibility evaluation practices - online survey
> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 04:03:41 -0700
>
> And now I will engage my brain and include the URL to the survey:
>
> http://deyalexander.com/survey.html
>
> Cheers,
> Dey
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Re: Re[2]: Web accessibility and usability
> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:08:17 -0700
>
> Thank you, Estelle and Iain your input.
>
> Is anyone aware of statistics on the number of Internet users who set
> their browser to turn off images?
>
> Many thanks,
> Annmarie
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: iain
> Date: Saturday, October 30, 2004 2:53 pm
> Subject: [WebAIM] Re[2]: Web accessibility and usability
>
>>
>> Saturday, October 30, 2004, 7:47:08 PM, alg230 wrote:
>>
>> > Would anyone anticipate the presence of "alt" as improving the
>> > experience of users without disabilities (in terms of any of the
>> > metrics
>> > noted on UsableNet: time, number of errors, success rate, and
>> subjective rating)?
>>
>>
>> Some people browse the web with images switched off to improve
>> loading speed: I do this when I'm using a cellular connection, and
>> 3G isn't available.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Iain
>>
>> ----
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>>
>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Re: Web accessibility and usability
> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 11:30:28 -0700
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> An Artists Point of View.
>
> As an artist I really need to use longer
> descriptions than is possible using a simple ALT
> atribute. Considering
> longdesc is not totally supported I use a link to a full description at
> the
> bottom of each page.
>
> On my art web design site I have section called
> "Pictures we can all see" which has an example of alternative description
> of a
> paint box for sale in a web shop.
> http://www.profwebsite.com/imagine/shop.html
> and of craft items at
> http://www.profwebsite.com/imagine/smallitems.html
>
> This level of description is essential for
> selling art and craft items to non graphics viewers but also very useful
> to all
> users.
>
> For any complex graphic, especially photographs
> that can vary so much in quality on the Web media, using extented
> descriptions
> can be useful for pointing out important features that may be overlooked
> at
> first glance.
>
> The whole article which is aimed at accessibility
> for art websites can be seen at
> http://www.profwebsite.com/imagine/bloodbottler.html
>
>
> On my Friends of Beamish Museum site Home Page I show a photograph and use
> both a short ALT and also use a TITLE:
> alt="Friends erecting a sign." title="One of the many jobs the Friends do
> is
> to repair, paint and erect signs in the Museum.
> With text as follows...
> "Photograph: Three good Friends of Beamish erecting a sign they have
> restored
> for the Museum." and (link)With an alternative
> picture description for non graphics or blind users.
> See http://www.friendsofbeamish.co.uk/index.html
> The extended (real alternative) description is
> on a seperate page but I will be moving it to the bottom of the
> page.
>
> APPROPRIATE is the word I would use when
> deciding on the many possible uses of the ALT attribute.
> There is lots written on the Web on the subject but
> this is from my own point of view as an artist presenting
> mostly graphical work to the widest possible audience. Blind people DO buy
> art!
>
> Joe Bosher.
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Re: Web accessibility and usability
> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:31:51 -0700
>
> Estelle wrote:
>
>> Also, sometimes I see an image and wonder what it is - a
>> simple mouse over gives me more information.
>> Sometimes I get to a site, and they moved their image
>> directory, or wrote their JavaScript incorrectly, or have a
>> typo in the code and the image just doesn't come thru. With
>> an alt tag we are not left wondering.
>>
>
> A minor point of clarification:
>
> Firefox does not display the alt attribute on mouseover. IE does, but it
> "shouldn't".
>
> More discussion at http://wordpress.org/support/3/14629
>
> Kerry
>
> --
> Kerry Webb
> ACT Information Management
> (02) 62070239
>
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
> This email, and any attachments, may be confidential and also privileged.
> If you are not the intended recipient:
> Please notify the sender and delete all copies of this transmission along
> with any attachments immediately.
> You should not copy or use it for any purpose, nor disclose its contents
> to any other person.
> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Re[2]: Web accessibility and usability
> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 15:38:06 -0700
>
> Sunday, October 31, 2004, 10:31:18 PM, kerrya.webb wrote:
>
>> Firefox does not display the alt attribute on mouseover. IE does, but it
>> "shouldn't".
>
> Agreed, but if there is a "title" as well, IE does correctly show that
> instead of the "alt".
>
>
> --
>
> Iain
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Re: Web accessibility and usability
> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 17:18:48 -0700
>
> Hi Annmarie,
>
> In Australia it has been estimated that 30% of our rural population
> browses
> the Web with graphics off due to slow telecommunications [1]. I'm sure
> this
> is similar in many other parts of the world too. If you give people in
> this
> situation the option of a good experience with their graphics off, then
> you'll save you own bandwidth too.
>
> While things are slowly improving here, the National Farmers Federation
> tell
> me that there is still a long way to go!
>
> Cheers, Andrew
>
> [1] http://www.rirdc.gov.au/reports/HCC/00-13.pdf (NB a 260kb PDF file)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alg230 [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
> Sent: Sunday, 31 October 2004 5:47 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Cc: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Web accessibility and usability
>
>
>
> Andrew,
>
> While reviewing www.w3.org/WAI/bcase/benefits.html that you suggested, I
> came across a very helpful table that summarizes checkpoints that
> contribute
> to different design categories including: usability, public search engine,
> low bandwidth, support low literacy, and semantic web.
>
> Checkpoint 1.1 Provide text equivalent for non-text element was listed as
> contributing to usability, and other categories including public search
> engine and low bandwidth.
>
> I can understand how "alt" attributes benefit search engine results and
> users with low bandwidth, but I wasn't clear on how it is important for
> usability for people without disabilities. Does anyone have opinions on
> this?
>
> It is my hope to demonstrate that accessibility efforts also improve the
> experience of users without disabilities. I'm planning to do some
> usability
> tests with visually impaired users and then users without disabilities.
>
> Would anyone anticipate the presence of "alt" as improving the experience
> of
> users without disabilities (in terms of any of the metrics noted on
> UsableNet: time, number of errors, success rate, and subjective rating)?
>
> Thank you very much for any help that you can offer.
>
> Regards,
> Annmarie
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Andrew Arch
> Date: Sunday, October 10, 2004 6:33 am
> Subject: RE: [WebAIM] Web accessibility and usability
>
>> Hi Annmarie,
>>
>> Don't know of any formal studies (apart from the
>> Microsoft/Forrester one),
>> but many people have written articles on this topic. E.g.:
>> 1.
>> www.webcredible.co.uk/user-friendly-resources/web-
>> accessibility/web-accessib
>> ility-usability.shtml
>> 2. www.w3.org/WAI/bcase/benefits.html
>> 3. http://www.uiaccess.com/upa2000a.html
>> 4. http://ausweb.scu.edu.au/aw02/papers/refereed/arch/index.html
>> 5. http://www.frontend.com/accessibility_paper.html#Usability
>>
>> Andrew
>> _________________________________
>> Dr Andrew Arch
>> Manager Online Accessibility Consulting
>> Accessible Information Solutions, NILS
>> Ph 613 9864 9222; Fax 613 9864 9210; Mobile 0438 755 565
>> http://www.nils.org.au/ | http://www.it-test.com.au/ |
>> http://www.ozewai.org/
>>
>> Member, Education &amp; Outreach Working Group,
>> W3C Web Accessibility Initiative
>> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/
>>
>> National Information &amp; Library Service, Australia
>> A subsidiary of RBS.RVIB.VAF Ltd.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: alg230 [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
>> Sent: Sunday, 10 October 2004 5:35 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Web accessibility and usability
>>
>>
>>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I am in the early stages of a master's thesis. The topic that I
>> would like
>> to explore is how (whether) web accessibility promotes usability by
>> non-disabled users. In other words, I am interested in making a
>> case for
>> how accessibility benefits more than the disabled segment of a web
>> site'scustomer base.
>>
>> For the purposes of a literature survey, I was wondering if anyone
>> might be
>> aware of previous studies that have been completed for this topic.
>> In
>> addition, all opinions are most welcome and very much appreciated.
>> It would
>> be helpful to know in advance whether a study on this topic would
>> be useful
>> to the web accessibility community.
>>
>> Thank you for your time...
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Annmarie Gemma
>> Master's Candidate in Management &amp; Systems
>> New York University
>>
>> ----
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>>
>>
>
> ----
> To subscribe or unsubscribe, visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: Re: Web accessibility and usability
> Date: Sun, 31 Oct 2004 18:40:05 -0700
>
> While for people on high bandwidth connections with no visual difficulties
> the alt tag does not add to usability in way that I can see but for
> people
> on low bandwidth connections where graphic navigation is used it can be
> very
> useful since it allow them to navigate the site before the graphics
> completely download. This is particularly useful when a person has visited
> a
> site before and knows where they want to go but does not know the exact
> page
> name (in other words no bookmark).
>
> I haven't looked at the metrics you mentioned so the above is subjective
> but
> based on observation of people on dial-up connections who are frustrated
> when they have to wait for a graphics heavy site to download when all they
> want to do is get to an internal page on the site.
>
>
> Cheryl D. Wise
> Certified Professional Web Developer
> MS-MVP-FrontPage
> www.wiserways.com
> mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> 713.353.0139 Office
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: alg230
>
> While reviewing www.w3.org/WAI/bcase/benefits.html that you suggested, I
> came across a very helpful table that summarizes checkpoints that
> contribute
> to different design categories including: usability, public search engine,
> low bandwidth, support low literacy, and semantic web.
>
> Checkpoint 1.1 Provide text equivalent for non-text element was listed as
> contributing to usability, and other categories including public search
> engine and low bandwidth.
>
> I can understand how "alt" attributes benefit search engine results and
> users with low bandwidth, but I wasn't clear on how it is important for
> usability for people without disabilities. Does anyone have opinions on
> this?
>
> It is my hope to demonstrate that accessibility efforts also improve the
> experience of users without disabilities. I'm planning to do some
> usability
> tests with visually impaired users and then users without disabilities.
>
> Would anyone anticipate the presence of "alt" as improving the experience
> of
> users without disabilities (in terms of any of the metrics noted on
> UsableNet: time, number of errors, success rate, and subjective rating)?
>
>