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RE: Long form legends

for

From: Joelle Tegwen
Date: Jun 10, 2005 3:27PM

I must say I'm quite frustrated that screen readers don't support something
as basic as a form.

We'll have to research this. We visited with a (blind) usability expert here
at our University and he was clear that we should be using
fieldsets/legends.

I don't think we'll go with the method you suggested (for the reasons I
mentioned before) if we change over. Maybe we'll use dls. That seems at
least closer to semantically correct and (I think) would achieve the desired
effect of associating the "legend" with the child inputs.

And if they don't support fieldsets I'll be working overtime not taking a
vacation. :)

Thanks
Joelle


-----Original Message-----
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Thomas Jedenfelt
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 10:53 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: RE: [WebAIM] RE: Long form legends

Joelle,

You wrote:
'But we have over 70 activities and they all have fieldsets.'

As I wrote in my first message in this thread, FIELDSET / LEGEND is not
consistently supported by user agents, according to AFB (American Foundation
for the Blind).

(http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=57&;TopicID=167&DocumentID=2375&Mod
&Mode=Print&Mode=Print)

If AFB's recommendation is still valid as of today (and affects your users),
I would say that you are in serious trouble.

Maybe you ought to find out if the user agents - that the students are using
- supports these elements, before you continue to work on these forms.

If they don't supports these elements, you might want to take a vacation.

Regards,
Thomas Jedenfelt


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joelle Tegwen"
Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:52:31 -0500

>
> I'm going to talk to our designers about moving from two radios to one
> checkbox, thus eliminating a lot of our needed fieldsets. But we have over
> 70 activities and they all have fieldsets. I just gave 1 example.
>
> But I do have many cases where I have things like:
> List 5 people that can help you with this:
> 1. <input type="text">
> 2. <input type="text">
> 3. <input type="text">
> 4. <input type="text">
> 5. <input type="text">
>
> And these clearly qualify for a fieldset/legend.
>
> We *must* be accessible to screen readers (our mission is to support
people
> with disabilities) so the "List 5 people.." needs to be associated with
the
> 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5. His example only associates the "List 5 people..." with
the
> 1st control.
>
> Could we use a <dl>? Can form controls go inside a dl?
>
> Thanks
> Joelle
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Jedenfelt
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 11:37 PM
>
> Okay, as my previous suggestions did not cause shouts of joy, let's try
> another one:
>
> In below suggestion I use CHECKBOX and TEXT field.
>
> There are no LEGEND, FIELDSET or RADIO elements.
> (Joelle had problems with styling LEGEND / FIELDSET. And AFB suggests
> avoiding RADIO [1].)
>
> There are only five or six questions, so I do not see a need for LEGEND /
> FIELDSET.
> Does anyone agree?
>
> I have rephrased the text of the labels.
>
> I have omitted the attributes.
>
> <p><label>
> <input type="checkbox">
> Yes, I will need assistance with arranging transportation when I do things
> out in the community.
> </label></p>
>
> <p><label>
> <input type="checkbox">
> Yes, I could get a ride with someone who is already involved in the
> organization.
> </label></p>
>
> <p><label>
> I can not get a ride with someone who is already involved in the
> organization, but these persons can give me a ride:
> <input type="text" value="name">
> </label></p>
>
> <p><label>
> <input type="checkbox">
> Yes, I will need extra time to complete some activities and assignments.
> </label></p>
>
> <p><label>
> I will need this kind of support from someone while I am actually on-site
> volunteering or doing community service:
> <input type="text" value="text">
> </label></p>
>
>
> Also, this article may be of interest:
>
> Jakob Nielsen's Alertbox, 27-Sep-2004
> 'Checkboxes vs. Radio Buttons'
> (http://www.useit.com/alertbox/20040927.html)
>
> Regards,
> Thomas Jedenfelt
>
> [1]
> AFB suggests avoiding RADIO.
> AccessWorld issue of March 2004.
> http://www.afb.org/afbpress/pub.asp?DocID=aw050204
>
> As I mentioned earlier in this thread, AFB's advice is still on their Web
> site, one year after the article.
>
(http://www.afb.org/Section.asp?SectionID=57&;TopicID=167&DocumentID=2375&Mod
> e=Print)
>
> I wonder if AFB, as of today, still recommends that RADIO should be
avoided.
> Or, if they haven't as yet updated the Web page?
>


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