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Thread: blink and marquee elements
Number of posts in this thread: 5 (In chronological order)
From: Derren
Date: Tue, Mar 05 2002 9:39AM
Subject: blink and marquee elements
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I am currently evaluating a website for Section 508 compliance and I
came across the use of the marquee element.
In the Techniques for Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0...
http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-TECHS/
...it is mentioned that "The BLINK and MARQUEE elements are not
defined in any W3C HTML specification and should not be used."
Does Section 508 cover the marquee and blink elements in any way?
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Derren Hermann Usability Specialist
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = Diamond Bullet Design
www.diamondbullet.com 315 W. Huron, Suite 140
phone: 734/665-9307 Ann Arbor, MI 48103 USA
fax: 734/665-9353
Usability First --- www.usabilityfirst.com
RetroAccess, www.retroaccess.com
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From: Mark Rew
Date: Tue, Mar 05 2002 10:57AM
Subject: Re: blink and marquee elements
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Yes, I believe the following from the subsection 1194.22 applies.
(j) Pages shall be designed to avoid causing the screen to flicker with a
frequency greater than 2 Hz and lower than 55 Hz.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Mark Rew
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derren" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 11:39 AM
Subject: blink and marquee elements
> I am currently evaluating a website for Section 508 compliance and I
> came across the use of the marquee element.
>
> In the Techniques for Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0...
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-TECHS/
>
> ...it is mentioned that "The BLINK and MARQUEE elements are not
> defined in any W3C HTML specification and should not be used."
>
> Does Section 508 cover the marquee and blink elements in any way?
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Derren Hermann Usability Specialist
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = Diamond Bullet Design
> www.diamondbullet.com 315 W. Huron, Suite 140
> phone: 734/665-9307 Ann Arbor, MI 48103 USA
> fax: 734/665-9353
>
> Usability First --- www.usabilityfirst.com
>
> RetroAccess, www.retroaccess.com
> Opening the Internet to Everyone
>
>
> ---
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
>
----
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
From: Derren
Date: Tue, Mar 05 2002 1:33PM
Subject: Re: blink and marquee elements
← Previous message | Next message →
I believe (j) would cover the blink element, but not the marquee. The
marquee element just causes text to scroll across the screen, so I
think the main concern has to do with an inability to stop the text
if one can't read it fast enough.
While I think that most would agree that avoiding use of the marquee
element is a good idea, I still don't see it covered in 508.
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
Derren Hermann
>Yes, I believe the following from the subsection 1194.22 applies.
>(j) Pages shall be designed to avoid causing the screen to flicker with a
>frequency greater than 2 Hz and lower than 55 Hz.
>
>Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
>Mark Rew
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Derren" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 11:39 AM
>Subject: blink and marquee elements
>
>
>> I am currently evaluating a website for Section 508 compliance and I
>> came across the use of the marquee element.
>>
>> In the Techniques for Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0...
>>
>> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-TECHS/
>>
>> ...it is mentioned that "The BLINK and MARQUEE elements are not
>> defined in any W3C HTML specification and should not be used."
>>
>> Does Section 508 cover the marquee and blink elements in any way?
>> --
>> --------------------------------------------------------------
>> Derren Hermann Usability Specialist
>> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = Diamond Bullet Design
>> www.diamondbullet.com 315 W. Huron, Suite 140
>> phone: 734/665-9307 Ann Arbor, MI 48103 USA
>> fax: 734/665-9353
>>
>> Usability First --- www.usabilityfirst.com
>>
>> RetroAccess, www.retroaccess.com
>> Opening the Internet to Everyone
>>
>>
>> ---
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
>> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>>
>>
>> ----
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
>> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>>
> >
>
>
>----
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
>visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
--
RetroAccess: Opening the Internet to Everyone
www.retroaccess.com
315 W. Huron, # 140
Ann Arbor, MI 48103 USA
+ 1 (734) 665-9307
AccessEnable: Free Demo
http://www.retroaccess.com/demo.cgi
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From: Anitra Pavka
Date: Tue, Mar 05 2002 2:13PM
Subject: Re: blink and marquee elements
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This Section 508 point may cover the marquee tag since the user cannot
control the rate at which the text scrolls: (p) "When a timed response is
required, the user shall be alerted and given sufficient time to indicate more
time is required." The scrolling rate may be too fast for some users.
I wouldn't recommend using that tag, anyhow, because it's proprietary
(Microsoft Internet Explorer).
<------------------------------------------------------
Anitra Pavka | Web Designer & Accessibility Advocate
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = | Information Network of Kansas
Accessibility Weblog-> http://www.anitrapavka.com
------------------------------------------------------->
Derren wrote:
> I believe (j) would cover the blink element, but not the marquee. The
> marquee element just causes text to scroll across the screen, so I
> think the main concern has to do with an inability to stop the text
> if one can't read it fast enough.
>
> While I think that most would agree that avoiding use of the marquee
> element is a good idea, I still don't see it covered in 508.
>
> Please correct me if I'm wrong.
>
> Derren Hermann
>
> >Yes, I believe the following from the subsection 1194.22 applies.
> >(j) Pages shall be designed to avoid causing the screen to flicker with a
> >frequency greater than 2 Hz and lower than 55 Hz.
> >
> >Please correct me if I'm wrong.
> >
> >Mark Rew
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Derren" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >Sent: Tuesday, March 05, 2002 11:39 AM
> >Subject: blink and marquee elements
> >
> >
> >> I am currently evaluating a website for Section 508 compliance and I
> >> came across the use of the marquee element.
> >>
> >> In the Techniques for Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0...
> >>
> >> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-TECHS/
> >>
> >> ...it is mentioned that "The BLINK and MARQUEE elements are not
> >> defined in any W3C HTML specification and should not be used."
> >>
> >> Does Section 508 cover the marquee and blink elements in any way?
> >> --
> >> --------------------------------------------------------------
> >> Derren Hermann Usability Specialist
> >> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = Diamond Bullet Design
> >> www.diamondbullet.com 315 W. Huron, Suite 140
> >> phone: 734/665-9307 Ann Arbor, MI 48103 USA
> >> fax: 734/665-9353
> >>
> >> Usability First --- www.usabilityfirst.com
> >>
> >> RetroAccess, www.retroaccess.com
> >> Opening the Internet to Everyone
> >>
> >>
> >> ---
> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> >> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
> >>
> >>
> >> ----
> >> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> >> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
> >>
> > >
> >
> >
> >----
> >To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> >visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
> --
> RetroAccess: Opening the Internet to Everyone
> www.retroaccess.com
> 315 W. Huron, # 140
> Ann Arbor, MI 48103 USA
> + 1 (734) 665-9307
>
> AccessEnable: Free Demo
> http://www.retroaccess.com/demo.cgi
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
----
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From: John Foliot - bytown internet
Date: Tue, Mar 05 2002 5:46PM
Subject: RE: blink and marquee elements
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While Section 508 is obviously the _minimum_ requirement in the states, it's
worth noting that WAI Priority 2 Guidelines address these questions
directly:
3.2 (http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/wai-pageauth.html#tech-identify-grammar) -
Create documents that validate to published formal grammars.
(Unless you code to the *rare* and obsolete Microsoft DTD, this kills off
marquee {<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//Microsoft//DTD Internet Explorer 3.0
HTML//EN">} which I believe was the only DTD to recognize this element
Note: for the curious, see: http://validator.w3.org/sgml-lib/catalog. I
don't have a reference URL for the above published spec, so I don't know if
a user agent could validate against it any longer)
11.2
(http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/wai-pageauth.html#tech-avoid-deprecated) -
Avoid deprecated features of W3C technologies.
(blink was deprecated in 1997 with the release of HTML 4.0)
7.3 (http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/wai-pageauth.html#tech-avoid-movement) -
Until user agents allow users to freeze moving content, avoid movement in
pages.
(marquee creates movement, so even if you DID use the above Microsoft DTD,
it would still be inaccessible)
So... avoid them.
As always, JMHO
JF
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]On Behalf Of
> Derren
> Sent: March 5, 2002 11:39 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: blink and marquee elements
>
>
> I am currently evaluating a website for Section 508 compliance and I
> came across the use of the marquee element.
>
> In the Techniques for Web Content Accessibility Guidelines 1.0...
>
> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-TECHS/
>
> ...it is mentioned that "The BLINK and MARQUEE elements are not
> defined in any W3C HTML specification and should not be used."
>
> Does Section 508 cover the marquee and blink elements in any way?
> --
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> Derren Hermann Usability Specialist
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = Diamond Bullet Design
> www.diamondbullet.com 315 W. Huron, Suite 140
> phone: 734/665-9307 Ann Arbor, MI 48103 USA
> fax: 734/665-9353
>
> Usability First --- www.usabilityfirst.com
>
> RetroAccess, www.retroaccess.com
> Opening the Internet to Everyone
>
>
> ---
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
>
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