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Thread: FW: Complication of the alt text issue
Number of posts in this thread: 8 (In chronological order)
From: Lisa Halabi
Date: Tue, Mar 12 2002 3:48PM
Subject: FW: Complication of the alt text issue
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Dear All,
I'm having difficulties trying to help a colleague solve the thorny issue of
what to put on Alt tags as part of a massive redesign to make our Company
site ultra accessible. I've seen this issue discussed countless times and
thought it was all clear and simple, but not so! Please see the email below.
Basically, we can't decide on the appropriate level of detail to include,
especially as we want to show the keyboard short cuts in the Alt tags as
well. I'd appreciate any comments you might have.
The url to the site is www.usabilitybydesign.com
Many thanks in advance.
Lisa
Lisa Halabi
Senior Usability & Accessibility Consultant
Events Coordinator - UK Usability Professionals Assoc.
www.usabilitybydesign.com
Email: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Tel: +44 (0)7956 280 447
From: Jim Thatcher
Date: Tue, Mar 12 2002 4:00PM
Subject: RE: Complication of the alt text issue
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Think about what it is like to listen to the alt text. You chose "Products
and Services" for the text on the button. Then "Products and services"
should be the alt text. If you want to give more information for a
mouse-over, use the title attribute for stuff like, "Details on the products
and services we offer, and what they can do for you" - but please not all
that in the alt text. See the discussion of alt text style in the web
course, http://jimthatcher.com/webcourse2.htm.
Jim
Accessibility Consulting
There's a new book on Web Accessibility. For information:
http://jimthatcher.com.
From: John Foliot - bytown internet
Date: Tue, Mar 12 2002 4:30PM
Subject: RE: Complication of the alt text issue
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- ALT attribute is a brief descriptive of the image... in your case
"Products and Services" or at the most "Products and Services Page". Just
as the "button" generally offers no more explanation than that to the
sighted, so too the ALT text. Trust me, the non-sighted will understand
that this is a link to the Products and Services page(s). Try to avoid
over-compensation, it could inadvertanly become offensive, almost a "dumbing
down for the blind guy". (with no offence to anyone on this list) You could
try using the title attribute, but it's support over multiple browsers is
dodgy at best.
- You know that ALL images have ALT text, even if its <..ALT="">
- If the image in question requires more explanation than as mentioned
above, move to LONGDESC and or d-links (both are external files with text
descriptions of the image in question)
As for accessiblity "enhancements" such as keyboard short cuts, why not make
a seperate page within your site which outlines all of the accessibility
features you have provided, along with a list of the keyboard shortcuts?
Trying to make the ALT text serve multiple purposes is contrary to it's
intent and actually (as you have discovered) creates as many problems as it
attempts to solve.
As always, JMHO
JF
www.bytowninternet.com
>
From: Kim Grinfeder
Date: Tue, Mar 12 2002 4:40PM
Subject: RE: Complication of the alt text issue
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"As for accessiblity "enhancements" such as keyboard short cuts, why not
make a seperate page within your site which outlines all of the
accessibility features you have provided,"
This is a good idea. I would like to learn more about keyboard shortcuts
and how to implement them is there a site I could learn more about this?
Also, I have never seen a site that has a separate page dedicated to
keyboards shortcuts, does you know a URL of where I can see an example?
And while I am writing to the list and we are talking about alt tags, I
had to remove all alt tags from images because our designer (I am a
developer) did not want them showing up when the mouse was over the
images, I replaced the alt tags with longdesc tags. Is this helpful at
all or bad form?
Thanks,
Kim
From: Glenda Watson Hyatt
Date: Tue, Mar 12 2002 5:04PM
Subject: RE: Complication of the alt text issue
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Hi Kim,
For some more info on accesskeys, check out
http://www.webaccessguides.org/accessguide/question9.htm#5.
I'll let someone else answer your latest question re alt v longdesc. My
diplomacy is wearing thin <GRIN>. Is it quiting time yet?
Anyway, good on you Kim for being aware of the accessibility issues. Keep
asking questions.
Cheers,
Glenda
*********
Glenda Watson Hyatt
Soaring Eagle Communications
"Creating freedom and power through accessible communications"
E Mail: mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Website: http://www.eaglecom.bc.ca
Want to know how to make your website accessible to more people?
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>
From: John Foliot - bytown internet
Date: Tue, Mar 12 2002 7:40PM
Subject: replaced the alt tags with longdesc tags (was: Complication of the alt text issue)
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>
From: Kristin Evenson Hirst
Date: Wed, Mar 13 2002 7:17AM
Subject: RE: Complication of the alt text issue
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At 06:40 PM 3/12/02 -0500, Kim Grinfeder < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>And while I am writing to the list and we are talking about alt tags, I
>had to remove all alt tags from images because our designer (I am a
>developer) did not want them showing up when the mouse was over the
>images, I replaced the alt tags with longdesc tags. Is this helpful at
>all or bad form?
Your designer should go back to and stick to print, where one can totally
control the final image. Web pages are developed, not designed, and the
best one can do about appearance is to suggest it. If your designer gets
all huffy, try running a few of his pages through an HTML validator --
http://validator.w3.org/ -- and ask questions like
Why are there four references to an external stylesheet (with the first two
being invalid)?
<LINK href="ubd.css" type=text/css rel=stylesheet>
<LINK href="Untitled Document_files/ubd.css" type=text/css rel=stylesheet>
<link rel="stylesheet" href="ubd.css" type="text/css">
<link rel="stylesheet" href="ubd.css" type="text/css">
Why specify font color repeatedly when there's a stylesheet that could be used?
See http://ppewww.ph.gla.ac.uk/~flavell/alt/alt-text.html for a useful
discussion of ALT text.
See also
Web Pages aren't Printed on Paper
Or how I gave up trying to "control" web pages and discovered adaptability
http://www.westciv.com/style_master/house/good_oil/not_paper/index.html
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From: iris
Date: Wed, Mar 13 2002 4:07PM
Subject: Re: replaced the alt tags with longdesc tags (was: Complication of the alt text issue)
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--- John Foliot - bytown internet
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Now if it's the infamous "spacer.gif" (and yes, I
> still will use them...
> because) or some equally useless imagery, then it's
> <..ALT="">. That way
> there is no "tool tip". But if the image conveys
> real information important
> to the overall web page, then put those ALT tags
> back in and go fight it out
<snip>
don't forget that the alt attribute is not actually
meant to pop up. it is not meant as a tool tip.
that's the title attribute. unfortunately this is
only done correctly in the latest standard compliant
browsers. but we have to think about forward
compatibility too.
also, just how difficult is it to move the mouse away
from the image again? i don't really understand what
the fuss is about. users know by now that if they
want additional information they should hover their
mouse over the image.
and such additional information should be provided by
the title attribute.
title = tooltip = additional
alt = alternative = instead of image
iris
download the latest mozilla build
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