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Thread: Browse Aloud
Number of posts in this thread: 13 (In chronological order)
From: Geof Collis
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 6:21AM
Subject: Browse Aloud
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Hi All
Can anyone clarify if Browse Aloud or other programs like it are a
part of the WCAG and if so exactly where is it mentioned?
cheers
Geof
Administrator
Coalition of Ontario Accessibility Advisory Committees (COAAC) Website
www.coaac.ca
Follow COAAC on Twitter
www.twitter.com/coaac
From: J. B-Vincent
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 6:36AM
Subject: Re: Browse Aloud
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Geof: By "other programs like it," do you mean third-party add-ons that are implemented by the developer, as opposed to something like JAWS?
Jane
--- On Fri, 4/16/10, Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
From: Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Browse Aloud
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Date: Friday, April 16, 2010, 4:23 AM
Hi All
Can anyone clarify if Browse Aloud or other programs like it are a
part of the WCAG and if so exactly where is it mentioned?
cheers
Geof
Administrator
Coalition of Ontario Accessibility Advisory Committees (COAAC) Website
www.coaac.ca
Follow COAAC on Twitter
www.twitter.com/coaac
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 6:39AM
Subject: Re: Browse Aloud
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On 16/04/2010 12:23, Geof Collis wrote:
> Can anyone clarify if Browse Aloud or other programs like it are a
> part of the WCAG and if so exactly where is it mentioned?
Nope, they're not...or, to clarify your question a bit more with the
answer: WCAG does not, in its normative text, make any reference to
additional tools like BrowseAloud or other self-voicing website
feautres. In the (strictly *informative*) techniques document, there is
one technique relating to this sort of thing
G79: Providing a spoken version of the text
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/G79
This technique relates to SC 3.1.5 Reading Level
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#meaning-supplements
And remember, it's not mandatory, and it's not the *only* way of
addressing the success criterion. There are other sufficient techniques
mentioned (and there may be even more techniques that aren't
mentioned...such is the nature of the informative techniques doc)
http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/#qr-meaning-supplements
As an aside: I know that, particularly BrowseAloud, has in the past made
spurious marketing claims to that effect, and also said things like
"PAS78 recommends you use BrowseAloud" etc (in reference to the old
guidance from the British Standards Institute on commissioning
accessible websites).
--
Patrick H. Lauke
From: Geof Collis
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 7:15AM
Subject: Re: Browse Aloud
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Hi Jane
Yes, any program like Browse Aloud that reads text but not a screen reader.
cheers
Geof
At 07:35 AM 4/16/2010, you wrote:
>Geof: By "other programs like it," do you mean third-party add-ons
>that are implemented by the developer, as opposed to something like JAWS?
>
>Jane
>
>--- On Fri, 4/16/10, Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>From: Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>Subject: [WebAIM] Browse Aloud
>To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>Date: Friday, April 16, 2010, 4:23 AM
>
>Hi All
>
>Can anyone clarify if Browse Aloud or other programs like it are a
>part of the WCAG and if so exactly where is it mentioned?
>
>
>cheers
>
>Geof
>
>
> Administrator
>Coalition of Ontario Accessibility Advisory Committees (COAAC) Website
>www.coaac.ca
>Follow COAAC on Twitter
>www.twitter.com/coaac
>
>
From: Geof Collis
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 7:18AM
Subject: Re: Browse Aloud
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Hi Patrick
Thank you very much!
I was recently told:
As for Browse Aloud I have tested this program
and it will be a boon to people with all types of
disabilities. I would point out to you that The
Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG)
documents explain how to make web content
accessible to people with disabilities. That is
exactly what Browse Aloud goes a long way to accomplishing.
cheers
Geof
At 07:38 AM 4/16/2010, you wrote:
>On 16/04/2010 12:23, Geof Collis wrote: > Can
>anyone clarify if Browse Aloud or other programs
>like it are a > part of the WCAG and if so
>exactly where is it mentioned? Nope, they're
>not...or, to clarify your question a bit more
>with the answer: WCAG does not, in its normative
>text, make any reference to additional tools
>like BrowseAloud or other self-voicing website
>feautres. In the (strictly *informative*)
>techniques document, there is one technique
>relating to this sort of thing G79: Providing a
>spoken version of the text
>http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20081211/G79
>This technique relates to SC 3.1.5 Reading Level
>http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-WCAG20-20081211/#meaning-supplements
>And remember, it's not mandatory, and it's not
>the *only* way of addressing the success
>criterion. There are other sufficient techniques
>mentioned (and there may be even more techniques
>that aren't mentioned...such is the nature of
>the informative techniques doc)
>http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20/quickref/#qr-meaning-supplements
>As an aside: I know that, particularly
>BrowseAloud, has in the past made spurious
>marketing claims to that effect, and also said
>things like "PAS78 recommends you use
>BrowseAloud" etc (in reference to the old
>guidance from the British Standards Institute on
>commissioning accessible websites). -- Patrick
>H. Lauke
>
From: Geof Collis
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 7:45AM
Subject: Re: Browse Aloud
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Further to my post, I read that Browse Aloud will read all
documentation, is this true? Will it read a pdf that isn't tagged properly?
cheers
Geof
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 7:51AM
Subject: Re: Browse Aloud
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On 16/04/2010 13:18, Geof Collis wrote:
> As for Browse Aloud I have tested this program
> and it will be a boon to people with all types of
> disabilities. I would point out to you that The
> Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG)
> documents explain how to make web content
> accessible to people with disabilities. That is
> exactly what Browse Aloud goes a long way to accomplishing.
And that's utter rubbish (and the sort of marketing BS that i quite
publicly pulled BrowseAloud up about in the past)! To use an old phrase:
don't believe the hype!
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
From: Geof Collis
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 8:12AM
Subject: Re: Browse Aloud
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Do you have any articles on the matter I could read?
At 08:52 AM 4/16/2010, you wrote:
>On 16/04/2010 13:18, Geof Collis wrote: > As for
>Browse Aloud I have tested this program > and it
>will be a boon to people with all types of >
>disabilities. I would point out to you that
>The > Web Content Accessibility Guidelines
>(WCAG) > documents explain how to make web
>content > accessible to people with
>disabilities. That is > exactly what Browse
>Aloud goes a long way to accomplishing. And
>that's utter rubbish (and the sort of marketing
>BS that i quite publicly pulled BrowseAloud up
>about in the past)! To use an old phrase: don't
>believe the hype! P -- Patrick H. Lauke
>
From: Simius Puer
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 8:21AM
Subject: Re: Browse Aloud
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No web standards would endorse a given product, that's not what they are
there for. Any claim to the contrary is, as this article points out,
marketing lies:
http://www.webstandards.org/2006/05/11/all-aboard-the-pas-78-gravy-train/
On 16 April 2010 14:12, Geof Collis < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Do you have any articles on the matter I could read?
>
> At 08:52 AM 4/16/2010, you wrote:
> >On 16/04/2010 13:18, Geof Collis wrote: > As for
> >Browse Aloud I have tested this program > and it
> >will be a boon to people with all types of >
> >disabilities. I would point out to you that
> >The > Web Content Accessibility Guidelines
> >(WCAG) > documents explain how to make web
> >content > accessible to people with
> >disabilities. That is > exactly what Browse
> >Aloud goes a long way to accomplishing. And
> >that's utter rubbish (and the sort of marketing
> >BS that i quite publicly pulled BrowseAloud up
> >about in the past)! To use an old phrase: don't
> >believe the hype! P -- Patrick H. Lauke
> >
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 8:24AM
Subject: Re: Browse Aloud
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On 16/04/2010 14:12, Geof Collis wrote:
> Do you have any articles on the matter I could read?
An old one here
http://www.webstandards.org/2006/05/11/all-aboard-the-pas-78-gravy-train/
(and the follow-up
http://www.webstandards.org/2006/05/27/browsealoud-respond/)
But in essence: BrowseAloud reads out your website, in simple terms. If
the website is built like crap, without any accessibility consideration,
BA won't magically solve the problem. In fact, it works best on sites
that are actually already accessible to start with, so it's just a
cherry on top. BA *can* be of use to a very small and specific sliver of
the "users with disabilities" demographic (mainly users with dyslexia).
It's not a magic bullet, and it doesn't cater for any other types of
disability. Claiming that it "goes a long way" is simply false.
P
> At 08:52 AM 4/16/2010, you wrote:
>> On 16/04/2010 13:18, Geof Collis wrote:> As for
>> Browse Aloud I have tested this program> and it
>> will be a boon to people with all types of>
>> disabilities. I would point out to you that
>> The> Web Content Accessibility Guidelines
>> (WCAG)> documents explain how to make web
>> content> accessible to people with
>> disabilities. That is> exactly what Browse
>> Aloud goes a long way to accomplishing. And
>> that's utter rubbish (and the sort of marketing
>> BS that i quite publicly pulled BrowseAloud up
>> about in the past)! To use an old phrase: don't
>> believe the hype! P -- Patrick H. Lauke
>>
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 8:27AM
Subject: Re: Browse Aloud
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On 16/04/2010 14:23, Simius Puer wrote:
> No web standards would endorse a given product, that's not what they are
> there for. Any claim to the contrary is, as this article points out,
> marketing lies:
>
> http://www.webstandards.org/2006/05/11/all-aboard-the-pas-78-gravy-train/
Hah, you beat me to it ;)
--
Patrick H. Lauke
From: Geof Collis
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 8:48AM
Subject: Re: Browse Aloud
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Hi Andrew
Thanks!! What has me seeing red is an article at
http://www.northumberlandnews.com/news/porthope/article/152177
and the website in question is at http://www.porthope.ca/en/. .
I brought it to the person in the articles attention and she made the
statement I posted as well as saying that the site was WCAG compliant.
What I am concerned about is other Municipalities thinking that
adding Browse Aloud to their sites will be all that is necessary to
claim accessibility after reading this article.
cheers
Geof
From: Geof Collis
Date: Fri, Apr 16 2010 8:54AM
Subject: Re: Browse Aloud
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Bonus!!
Geof
At 09:25 AM 4/16/2010, you wrote:
>On 16/04/2010 14:12, Geof Collis wrote: > Do you
>have any articles on the matter I could read? An
>old one here
>http://www.webstandards.org/2006/05/11/all-aboard-the-pas-78-gravy-train/
>(and the follow-up
>http://www.webstandards.org/2006/05/27/browsealoud-respond/)
>But in essence: BrowseAloud reads out your
>website, in simple terms. If the website is
>built like crap, without any accessibility
>consideration, BA won't magically solve the
>problem. In fact, it works best on sites that
>are actually already accessible to start with,
>so it's just a cherry on top. BA *can* be of use
>to a very small and specific sliver of the
>"users with disabilities" demographic (mainly
>users with dyslexia). It's not a magic bullet,
>and it doesn't cater for any other types of
>disability. Claiming that it "goes a long way"
>is simply false. P > At 08:52 AM 4/16/2010, you
>wrote: >> On 16/04/2010 13:18, Geof Collis
>wrote:> As for >> Browse Aloud I have tested
>this program> and it >> will be a boon to
>people with all types of> >> disabilities. I
>would point out to you that >> The> Web Content
>Accessibility Guidelines >> (WCAG)> documents
>explain how to make web >> content> accessible
>to people with >> disabilities. That
>is> exactly what Browse >> Aloud goes a long
>way to accomplishing. And >> that's utter
>rubbish (and the sort of marketing >> BS that i
>quite publicly pulled BrowseAloud up >> about in
>the past)! To use an old phrase: don't >>
>believe the hype! P -- Patrick H. Lauke >>
>