E-mail List Archives

Search E-mail List Archives for

Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)

From: James Bailey
Date: Thu, May 10 2012 3:05PM
Subject: web development tool for screen reader user?
No previous message | Next message →

I'm looking for recommendations for a web development tool for use by a person who is blind and a screen-reader user. The person would like to create web sites independently.

Thank you.

--
Best regards,

James

--

James Bailey M.S.
Adaptive Tech Coordinator
University of Oregon

From: Giovanni Duarte
Date: Thu, May 10 2012 3:32PM
Subject: Re: web development tool for screen reader user?
← Previous message | Next message →

James,
Dreamweaver may be a good option. Adobe says to support assistive
technologies within their development environment. I use Dreamweaver all the
time but I am not an AT user so I can't speak about its support of Assistive
Technologies.


http://www.adobe.com/accessibility/products/dreamweaver/overview.html

Giovanni


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of James Bailey
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 4:06 PM
To: WebAIM List ( = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = )
Subject: [WebAIM] web development tool for screen reader user?

I'm looking for recommendations for a web development tool for use by a
person who is blind and a screen-reader user. The person would like to
create web sites independently.

Thank you.

--
Best regards,

James

--

James Bailey M.S.
Adaptive Tech Coordinator
University of Oregon


messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: Bryan Garaventa
Date: Thu, May 10 2012 7:58PM
Subject: Re: web development tool for screen reader user?
← Previous message | Next message →

Personally I use BX from
http://dlee.org
and EdSharp from
http://empowermentzone.com/EdSharp.htm
That's about it really. Plus the system calculator sometimes for fine tuning
percentages.

I've found that code generator applications often introduce so many
accessibility issues and unnecessary filler code that must be manually
edited, that it's far simpler to just write the code and save the time.


----- Original Message -----
From: "James Bailey" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 2:05 PM
Subject: [WebAIM] web development tool for screen reader user?


> I'm looking for recommendations for a web development tool for use by a
> person who is blind and a screen-reader user. The person would like to
> create web sites independently.
>
> Thank you.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> James
>
> --
>
> James Bailey M.S.
> Adaptive Tech Coordinator
> University of Oregon
>
>
> > > >

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Thu, May 10 2012 8:05PM
Subject: Re: web development tool for screen reader user?
← Previous message | Next message →

DreamWeaver is fairly useless when it comes to the main code editor.
I mean useless in the sense that Jaws at least (and Adobe seems to
indicate Dreamweaver is most accessible with Jaws), does not indicate
any formatting of text, such as lists, headers, links or anything
else. It all just looks like plain text in the editor window, with
absolutely on indocation that one is special format.
If i use it, I have to go into code view to see what tags I am using
exactly, and often correct things like list tags there. So the design
view of DreamWeaver ends up being really just a fancy word processor
with a spell checker.
For the price tag, DreamWeaver does not do anything special for
accessibility that a free text editor can't do as well.
For debugging Javascript and more complex things, Dreamweaver can be
very useful, but I have used Visual Studio, since I am fortunate
enough to have it.
The only thing that I have found which might be promising (I have to
explore it more myself) is accessible Wordpress (I can repost the page
that includes accessibility settings for Wordpress, but I posted it a
few weeks ago on a different thread).
I believe for someone who is not into coding, but wants to create
his/her own web page, this might be the way to go about it.

Cheers
-B

On 5/11/12, Bryan Garaventa < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Personally I use BX from
> http://dlee.org
> and EdSharp from
> http://empowermentzone.com/EdSharp.htm
> That's about it really. Plus the system calculator sometimes for fine tuning
>
> percentages.
>
> I've found that code generator applications often introduce so many
> accessibility issues and unnecessary filler code that must be manually
> edited, that it's far simpler to just write the code and save the time.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Bailey" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 2:05 PM
> Subject: [WebAIM] web development tool for screen reader user?
>
>
>> I'm looking for recommendations for a web development tool for use by a
>> person who is blind and a screen-reader user. The person would like to
>> create web sites independently.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>>
>> James
>>
>> --
>>
>> James Bailey M.S.
>> Adaptive Tech Coordinator
>> University of Oregon
>>
>>
>> >> >> >>
>
> > > >

From: E.J. Zufelt
Date: Fri, May 11 2012 12:26AM
Subject: Re: web development tool for screen reader user?
← Previous message | Next message →

I also use EdSharp. There may be a better tool out there, but I have yet to find the time to go looking, which would seem to indicate that EdSharp works reasonably well.

http://empowermentzone.com/EdSharp.htm

http://www.EmpowermentZone.com/edsetup.exe


Everett Zufelt
http://zufelt.ca

Follow me on Twitter
http://twitter.com/ezufelt

View my LinkedIn Profile
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ezufelt



On 2012-05-10, at 9:58 PM, Bryan Garaventa wrote:

> Personally I use BX from
> http://dlee.org
> and EdSharp from
> http://empowermentzone.com/EdSharp.htm
> That's about it really. Plus the system calculator sometimes for fine tuning
> percentages.
>
> I've found that code generator applications often introduce so many
> accessibility issues and unnecessary filler code that must be manually
> edited, that it's far simpler to just write the code and save the time.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Bailey" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 2:05 PM
> Subject: [WebAIM] web development tool for screen reader user?
>
>
>> I'm looking for recommendations for a web development tool for use by a
>> person who is blind and a screen-reader user. The person would like to
>> create web sites independently.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>>
>> James
>>
>> --
>>
>> James Bailey M.S.
>> Adaptive Tech Coordinator
>> University of Oregon
>>
>>
>> >> >> >>
>
> > >

From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Fri, May 11 2012 6:45AM
Subject: Re: web development tool for screen reader user?
← Previous message | Next message →

Birkir,

I think "fairly useless" is a little harsh. It is true that the design view (what I assume you are referring to as the main code editor) doesn't have its own Document Object Model and therefore when you navigate the page content that assistive technologies are not able to voice the type of structures that you encounter. As you point out, this information is available via the code view, the split view (where you can ctrl+tab to jump between the design and code areas and quickly determine element type and attribute information), and also in the properties panel (ctrl+F3 jumps you to the properties panel, ctrl+f3 brings you back).

In short, I'm not disagreeing entirely with you, you raise a valid point about an improvement that would be quite useful. However, I maintain that Dreamweaver is a very useful tool for web developers whether they are sighted and mouse-using, or blind, or only able to navigate via the keyboard.

AWK

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:06 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] web development tool for screen reader user?

DreamWeaver is fairly useless when it comes to the main code editor.
I mean useless in the sense that Jaws at least (and Adobe seems to indicate Dreamweaver is most accessible with Jaws), does not indicate any formatting of text, such as lists, headers, links or anything else. It all just looks like plain text in the editor window, with absolutely on indocation that one is special format.
If i use it, I have to go into code view to see what tags I am using exactly, and often correct things like list tags there. So the design view of DreamWeaver ends up being really just a fancy word processor with a spell checker.
For the price tag, DreamWeaver does not do anything special for accessibility that a free text editor can't do as well.
For debugging Javascript and more complex things, Dreamweaver can be very useful, but I have used Visual Studio, since I am fortunate enough to have it.
The only thing that I have found which might be promising (I have to explore it more myself) is accessible Wordpress (I can repost the page that includes accessibility settings for Wordpress, but I posted it a few weeks ago on a different thread).
I believe for someone who is not into coding, but wants to create his/her own web page, this might be the way to go about it.

Cheers
-B

On 5/11/12, Bryan Garaventa < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Personally I use BX from
> http://dlee.org
> and EdSharp from
> http://empowermentzone.com/EdSharp.htm
> That's about it really. Plus the system calculator sometimes for fine
> tuning
>
> percentages.
>
> I've found that code generator applications often introduce so many
> accessibility issues and unnecessary filler code that must be manually
> edited, that it's far simpler to just write the code and save the time.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Bailey" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 2:05 PM
> Subject: [WebAIM] web development tool for screen reader user?
>
>
>> I'm looking for recommendations for a web development tool for use
>> by a person who is blind and a screen-reader user. The person would
>> like to create web sites independently.
>>
>> Thank you.
>>
>> --
>> Best regards,
>>
>> James
>>
>> --
>>
>> James Bailey M.S.
>> Adaptive Tech Coordinator
>> University of Oregon
>>
>>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Fri, May 11 2012 7:12AM
Subject: Re: web development tool for screen reader user?
← Previous message | No next message

Hi Andrew

I did not word that accurately, nor entirely fairly. I should have
said the Design View was "fairly useless", and I felt quite a bit let
down by spending $300 on Dreamweaver because its accessibility for
screen reader users had been highly touted (at least that had been my
perception, either based on this list or some web pages I researched
at the time), as one of its strongest assets, which is something I
simply can't agree with.
I wouldn't want people that want a simple software suite to write web
pages to go out and buy DreamWeaver based on a perception that it is
an accessible and easy-to-use editor that hardly requires any
knowledge of HTML, for instance (I found no way other than writing the
actual HTML by hand to create tables).
The original email souned like that person was looking for an
easy-to-use rather than powerful tool, so my assessment was based on
that.

However, if you do want a powerful HTML writing and Javascript debugging tool
that can be used somewhat accessibly, once you have picked up its menu
structure and nuances, Dreamweaver is a tool to look into.
I certainly never do, nor intend to, belittle the good work Adobe's
Accessibility team does on a daily basis, rather to prevent a user
from having unrealistic expectation of what a tool with a significant
price tag can do for you, from a screen reader user perspective.

Thanks
-Birkir


On 5/11/12, Andrew Kirkpatrick < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Birkir,
>
> I think "fairly useless" is a little harsh. It is true that the design view
> (what I assume you are referring to as the main code editor) doesn't have
> its own Document Object Model and therefore when you navigate the page
> content that assistive technologies are not able to voice the type of
> structures that you encounter. As you point out, this information is
> available via the code view, the split view (where you can ctrl+tab to jump
> between the design and code areas and quickly determine element type and
> attribute information), and also in the properties panel (ctrl+F3 jumps you
> to the properties panel, ctrl+f3 brings you back).
>
> In short, I'm not disagreeing entirely with you, you raise a valid point
> about an improvement that would be quite useful. However, I maintain that
> Dreamweaver is a very useful tool for web developers whether they are
> sighted and mouse-using, or blind, or only able to navigate via the
> keyboard.
>
> AWK
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Birkir R.
> Gunnarsson
> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 10:06 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] web development tool for screen reader user?
>
> DreamWeaver is fairly useless when it comes to the main code editor.
> I mean useless in the sense that Jaws at least (and Adobe seems to indicate
> Dreamweaver is most accessible with Jaws), does not indicate any formatting
> of text, such as lists, headers, links or anything else. It all just looks
> like plain text in the editor window, with absolutely on indocation that one
> is special format.
> If i use it, I have to go into code view to see what tags I am using
> exactly, and often correct things like list tags there. So the design view
> of DreamWeaver ends up being really just a fancy word processor with a spell
> checker.
> For the price tag, DreamWeaver does not do anything special for
> accessibility that a free text editor can't do as well.
> For debugging Javascript and more complex things, Dreamweaver can be very
> useful, but I have used Visual Studio, since I am fortunate enough to have
> it.
> The only thing that I have found which might be promising (I have to explore
> it more myself) is accessible Wordpress (I can repost the page that includes
> accessibility settings for Wordpress, but I posted it a few weeks ago on a
> different thread).
> I believe for someone who is not into coding, but wants to create his/her
> own web page, this might be the way to go about it.
>
> Cheers
> -B
>
> On 5/11/12, Bryan Garaventa < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Personally I use BX from
>> http://dlee.org
>> and EdSharp from
>> http://empowermentzone.com/EdSharp.htm
>> That's about it really. Plus the system calculator sometimes for fine
>> tuning
>>
>> percentages.
>>
>> I've found that code generator applications often introduce so many
>> accessibility issues and unnecessary filler code that must be manually
>> edited, that it's far simpler to just write the code and save the time.
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "James Bailey" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> To: < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> Sent: Thursday, May 10, 2012 2:05 PM
>> Subject: [WebAIM] web development tool for screen reader user?
>>
>>
>>> I'm looking for recommendations for a web development tool for use
>>> by a person who is blind and a screen-reader user. The person would
>>> like to create web sites independently.
>>>
>>> Thank you.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> James Bailey M.S.
>>> Adaptive Tech Coordinator
>>> University of Oregon
>>>
>>>
>>> >>> >>> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>>
>>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>
> > > messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > >