E-mail List Archives
Thread: Script fonts within a graphic and 508 compliance
Number of posts in this thread: 9 (In chronological order)
From: Strange, Lainie
Date: Fri, May 03 2013 9:21AM
Subject: Script fonts within a graphic and 508 compliance
No previous message | Next message →
Hello all - I am working on researching a website complaint for a site I maintain. They are asking that we remove a script-style font that is part of a tagline of a logo.
The above is part of our header throughout the site. The header includes the site name in high-contrast block letters and then the agency logo to the right of it - this logo includes the script font tagline underneath it. The user is stating that because the font is in script, it is not 508 compliant.
The entire header graphic (agency name/logo/tagline) includes alternative text.
I've been digging and can't really seem to find anything in Section 508 that directs me to say this is non-compliant. I know their complaint is probably directed more towards low-vision users. Can anyone provide some assistance/insight?
Thanks!
Lainie Strange
From: Paul J. Adam
Date: Fri, May 03 2013 9:38AM
Subject: Re: Script fonts within a graphic and 508 compliance
← Previous message | Next message →
Logos/Trademarks are exempt from WCAG 2.0 requirements like needing proper contrast and avoiding the use of images of text.
As long as you have an accurate text alternative that fully replicates the text embedded in the image then you should be fine.
It would make sense that if the tag line is hard to read for low vision users who may not have a screen reader to help them read the alt then you should probably include that tagline somewhere on the site where it's actually readable. That would be the inclusive thing to do, but not necessarily required by WCAG or 508.
Paul J. Adam
Accessibility Evangelist
www.deque.com
On May 3, 2013, at 10:21 AM, "Strange, Lainie" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hello all - I am working on researching a website complaint for a site I maintain. They are asking that we remove a script-style font that is part of a tagline of a logo.
>
> The above is part of our header throughout the site. The header includes the site name in high-contrast block letters and then the agency logo to the right of it - this logo includes the script font tagline underneath it. The user is stating that because the font is in script, it is not 508 compliant.
>
> The entire header graphic (agency name/logo/tagline) includes alternative text.
>
> I've been digging and can't really seem to find anything in Section 508 that directs me to say this is non-compliant. I know their complaint is probably directed more towards low-vision users. Can anyone provide some assistance/insight?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Lainie Strange
>
> > >
From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Fri, May 03 2013 9:46AM
Subject: Re: Script fonts within a graphic and 508 compliance
← Previous message | Next message →
Technically there is no Section 508 Standard that restricts fonts. However
some agencies restrict fonts for other reasons. For example the Impact font
pushes characters close together, so it might be hard for people with
learning disabilities. Other fonts may not magnify nicely with screen
magnifiers, like ZoomText. Normally font restrictions are geared toward
main content, and navigational areas. Would I label a site non-compliant if
I was evaluating it (I work somewhere where we have restricted fonts)? No,
but I would just denote it, and probably recommend changing it next time
you do a major/template update.
I would recommend talking to your Section 508 Coordinator if you have one.
--
Ryan E. Benson
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 11:21 AM, Strange, Lainie
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
> Hello all - I am working on researching a website complaint for a site I
> maintain. They are asking that we remove a script-style font that is part
> of a tagline of a logo.
>
> The above is part of our header throughout the site. The header includes
> the site name in high-contrast block letters and then the agency logo to
> the right of it - this logo includes the script font tagline underneath
> it. The user is stating that because the font is in script, it is not 508
> compliant.
>
> The entire header graphic (agency name/logo/tagline) includes alternative
> text.
>
> I've been digging and can't really seem to find anything in Section 508
> that directs me to say this is non-compliant. I know their complaint is
> probably directed more towards low-vision users. Can anyone provide some
> assistance/insight?
>
> Thanks!
>
> Lainie Strange
>
> > > >
From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Fri, May 03 2013 10:03AM
Subject: Re: Script fonts within a graphic and 508 compliance
← Previous message | Next message →
Lainie wrote:
"this logo includes the script font tagline underneath it. The user is
stating that because the font is in script, it is not 508 compliant."
The user who filed the complaint may indeed not be able to view the logo and
tagline, but the fact that the tagline is in a script font probably isn't
the problem. Some reasons that would make the tagline inaccessible are:
1. The tagline is a graphic, not live text. Solution: Alt-text.
2. The font is illegible or difficult to read. Solution: Choose a more
readable font.
Some scripts are less legible than others, making it difficult for sighted
visitors to read. But other scripts are quite legible. It also depends upon
how large or small the text is set.
But, on the other hand, the tagline of a logo is PR fluff and not essential
content. I'm wondering why anyone would take the time and effort to file a
formal accessibility complaint for something such a useless item on a
website. Plenty of other items in a website to worry about than the
frou-frou tagline.
-Bevi Chagnon
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
www.PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, Developers.
Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
Accessibility.
New schedule for classes and workshops coming in 2013.
From: Carol E Wheeler
Date: Fri, May 03 2013 10:06AM
Subject: Re: Script fonts within a graphic and 508 compliance
← Previous message | Next message →
On 5/3/2013 12:03, Chagnon | PubCom wrote:
> But, on the other hand, the tagline of a logo is PR fluff and not essential
> content. I'm wondering why anyone would take the time and effort to file a
> formal accessibility complaint for something such a useless item on a
> website. Plenty of other items in a website to worry about than the
> frou-frou tagline.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could get to the place where this was the
only thing users could complain about.
-- cew
*Carol E. Wheeler*
Web Co-ordinator
American Institute for Cancer Research
1759 R Street NW
Washington DC 20009
Direct Dial: 202-600-3001
Tel: 202-328-7744
Fax: 202-328-7226
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.aicr.org
From: Jukka K. Korpela
Date: Fri, May 03 2013 10:14AM
Subject: Re: Script fonts within a graphic and 508 compliance
← Previous message | Next message →
2013-05-03 18:21, Strange, Lainie wrote:
> The user is stating that because the font is
> in script, it is not 508 compliant.
There is nothing in 508 about such things. But you can ask the user to
specify which 508 rule they think is violated here.
> I've been digging and can't really seem to find anything in Section
> 508 that directs me to say this is non-compliant. I know their
> complaint is probably directed more towards low-vision users.
Whether a script font is good for accessibility is a different question;
508 only deals with a relatively small set of accessibility rules that
can be specified reasonably clearly and objectively. Readability of
fonts is something different.
Yucca
From: GF Mueden
Date: Fri, May 03 2013 12:02PM
Subject: Re: Script fonts within a graphic and 508 compliance
← Previous message | Next message →
We are wasting time until we know the users eye disability and ability,
what equipment is being used, and the settings, and an exact descriptiom
of what is seen. Some people are inarticulate. The first step in
solving the problrm is understanding the problem. Here we don't have
enough information.
Is is posibleto get that information and to let the authority lmow about
us and that we are interested and woupd like to be kept informed?
George
On 5/3/2013 12:03 PM, Chagnon | PubCom wrote:
> Lainie wrote:
> "this logo includes the script font tagline underneath it. The user is
> stating that because the font is in script, it is not 508 compliant."
>
> The user who filed the complaint may indeed not be able to view the logo and
> tagline, but the fact that the tagline is in a script font probably isn't
> the problem. Some reasons that would make the tagline inaccessible are:
> 1. The tagline is a graphic, not live text. Solution: Alt-text.
> 2. The font is illegible or difficult to read. Solution: Choose a more
> readable font.
>
> Some scripts are less legible than others, making it difficult for sighted
> visitors to read. But other scripts are quite legible. It also depends upon
> how large or small the text is set.
>
> But, on the other hand, the tagline of a logo is PR fluff and not essential
> content. I'm wondering why anyone would take the time and effort to file a
> formal accessibility complaint for something such a useless item on a
> website. Plenty of other items in a website to worry about than the
> frou-frou tagline.
>
> -Bevi Chagnon
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> www.PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, Developers.
> Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
> Accessibility.
> New schedule for classes and workshops coming in 2013.
>
> > > >
From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Fri, May 03 2013 12:26PM
Subject: Re: Script fonts within a graphic and 508 compliance
← Previous message | Next message →
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Jukka K. Korpela < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
There is nothing in 508 about such things. But you can ask the user to
specify which 508 rule they think is violated here.
I doubt that the user will be able specify the standard that they think is
being violated. In my experience people think something is wrong and alert
somebody. Simply ignoring the potential flag/issue because they cannot
pin-point why, is the wrong approach on how to handle this. If I threw out
questions sent to me cause they cannot quote the law, I wouldn't have a job.
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 2:02 PM, GF Mueden@ < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
We are wasting time until we know the users eye disability and ability,
what equipment is being used, and the settings, and an exact descriptiom
of what is seen.
George under the law a person has the right to not self identify as a
person with a disability. The only time the information you listed is
applicable, is if a formal complaint is filed or if the Section 508
Coordinator deemed the said site is compliant. Under both cases, this issue
should be taken off-line and not on this list.
--
Ryan E. Benson
On Fri, May 3, 2013 at 12:14 PM, Jukka K. Korpela < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
> 2013-05-03 18:21, Strange, Lainie wrote:
>
> > The user is stating that because the font is
> > in script, it is not 508 compliant.
>
> There is nothing in 508 about such things. But you can ask the user to
> specify which 508 rule they think is violated here.
>
> > I've been digging and can't really seem to find anything in Section
> > 508 that directs me to say this is non-compliant. I know their
> > complaint is probably directed more towards low-vision users.
>
> Whether a script font is good for accessibility is a different question;
> 508 only deals with a relatively small set of accessibility rules that
> can be specified reasonably clearly and objectively. Readability of
> fonts is something different.
>
> Yucca
>
>
> > > >
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Fri, May 03 2013 1:44PM
Subject: Re: Script fonts within a graphic and 508 compliance
← Previous message | No next message
This use is explicitly permitted by WCAG 2.0 and also ok under Section 508. Worth noting that the US Access Board uses an image of text on their site (http://access-board.gov/).
Although, I'd say that the alt they have (alt="banner with Board logo and photo of Board office") is a bad example of how to represent the information in the image since the text in the image is not really provided...
Thanks,
AWK
Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Accessibility
Adobe Systems
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://twitter.com/awkawk
http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility