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Thread: Best practices showing revisions (strikethroughs, etc.)

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From: Wyant, Jay (MNIT)
Date: Tue, Jan 07 2014 1:51PM
Subject: Best practices showing revisions (strikethroughs, etc.)
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Folks,

Our state's Revisor (department in charge of posting and tracking bills) is committed to accessibility. We are concerned that there doesn't seem to be a standard for showing document revisions in html format. As an example, here's a typical page on the Revisor's Bill site:
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?number=HF1862&version=0&session=ls88&session_year=2013&session_number=0

Deletions are identified by the tag <s></s>, additions by the underline tag. (A March 27 note in the WebAIM archives expressed concerns that this tag is deprecated. Another note argued against using the <del> tag.)

Is there any reference source for standards for such revision marks?

As an aside, we explored how a blind user would identify the revisions. Turns out unless we alert the user to change their screen reader's settings to "proofreading mode," the user would not be aware of any changes in the text. Also, we learned that VoiceOver and accessibility tools for mobile devices are not sufficiently granular to detect these changes.

Best,

Jay

JAY WYANT | CHIEF INFORMATION ACCESSIBILITY OFFICER
MN.IT SERVICES, CENTRAL
651.201.1001 (w) | 612.825.8285 (m) | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

Information Technology for Minnesota Government | mn.gov/oet

Learn: http://mn.gov/oet/governance/for-agencies/accessibility/

From: Scott González
Date: Tue, Jan 07 2014 2:36PM
Subject: Re: Best practices showing revisions (strikethroughs, etc.)
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I've seen a suggestion for using <del> along with the following CSS:

@media braille, embossed, speech {
del:before { content: "Deleted: "; }
del:after { content: " (End of deletion.) "; }
}

On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Wyant, Jay (MNIT) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Our state's Revisor (department in charge of posting and tracking bills)
> is committed to accessibility. We are concerned that there doesn't seem to
> be a standard for showing document revisions in html format. As an example,
> here's a typical page on the Revisor's Bill site:
>
> https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/text.php?number=HF1862&version=0&session=ls88&session_year=2013&session_number=0
>
> Deletions are identified by the tag <s></s>, additions by the underline
> tag. (A March 27 note in the WebAIM archives expressed concerns that this
> tag is deprecated. Another note argued against using the <del> tag.)
>
> Is there any reference source for standards for such revision marks?
>
> As an aside, we explored how a blind user would identify the revisions.
> Turns out unless we alert the user to change their screen reader's settings
> to "proofreading mode," the user would not be aware of any changes in the
> text. Also, we learned that VoiceOver and accessibility tools for mobile
> devices are not sufficiently granular to detect these changes.
>
> Best,
>
> Jay
>
> JAY WYANT | CHIEF INFORMATION ACCESSIBILITY OFFICER
> MN.IT SERVICES, CENTRAL
> 651.201.1001 (w) | 612.825.8285 (m) | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> Information Technology for Minnesota Government | mn.gov/oet
>
>
> Learn: http://mn.gov/oet/governance/for-agencies/accessibility/
>
>
>
>
> > > >

From: Jukka K. Korpela
Date: Tue, Jan 07 2014 4:07PM
Subject: Re: Best practices showing revisions (strikethroughs, etc.)
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2014-01-07 22:51, Wyant, Jay (MNIT) wrote:

> We are concerned that there
> doesn't seem to be a standard for showing document revisions in html
> format. As an example, here's a typical page on the Revisor's Bill
> site: [...]
> Deletions are identified by the tag <s></s>, additions by the
> underline tag.

Both according to HTML 4 and to HTML5 CR, deletion is to be marked with
<del>, insertion with <ins>. In practice, their impact is simply that
<del> causes overstriking, <ins> causes underlining. I don't think there
is any browser, search engine, or other relevant program that cares
about the "semantics" of these elements.

> (A March 27 note in the WebAIM archives expressed
> concerns that this tag is deprecated.

The <s> and elements are deprecated in HTML 4. In HTML5 CR, the
situation is in principle worse: they are conforming elements, but their
definitions are obscure and subject to varying interpretations. It's
really just a way of "saving" these presentational tags.

In practice, using <s> and vs. <del> and <ins> does not really
matter. I suppose they use <s> and , since they have longer history
in HTML: they are supported by all graphic browsers (though possibly not
all character cell browsers).

> Another note argued against
> using the <del> tag.)

I don't know why, but I can argue against the use of overstriking for
deletion and underlining for insertion, no matter how you achieve that.
Overstriking makes text more difficult to read. Underlining is easily
confused with links; it also breaks descenders of letters, somewhat
decreasing legibility.

> Is there any reference source for standards for such revision marks?

Regarding HTML, the "standards" we have tell you to use <del> and <ins>.

You can do so, of course. But I would then consider using style sheets
to make things more accessible to people using common graphic browsers
visually. For example,

/* remove overstriking on mouseover: */
del:hover { text-decoration: none }
/* replace underlining by dashed line under in different color: */
ins { text-decoration: none; border-bottom: dashed green 2px; }

For non-visual browsing, you would need something else.

Yucca

From: Wyant, Jay (MNIT)
Date: Thu, Jan 09 2014 8:09AM
Subject: Re: Best practices showing revisions (strikethroughs, etc.)
← Previous message | Next message →

To make sure I am clear:

- Both <del> or <s> are acceptable tags for strikethrough- the key is to alert the screenreader user to set to a proofreading scheme (in JAWS by pressing alt-insert-s). Otherwise the screen reader will simply ignore all text within those tags.

- However, the solution will not address iOS systems using Voiceover, which does not provide a proofreading mode. Users relying on Voiceover will not be able to distinguish the strikethrough text.

- Would an alternative, such as this strikethrough code I found on Karl Groves' site work for all environments?: 

Thoughts?

Jay

-----Original Message-----
From: Jukka K. Korpela [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Tuesday, January 07, 2014 5:07 PM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Best practices showing revisions (strikethroughs, etc.)

2014-01-07 22:51, Wyant, Jay (MNIT) wrote:

> We are concerned that there
> doesn't seem to be a standard for showing document revisions in html
> format. As an example, here's a typical page on the Revisor's Bill
> site: [...]
> Deletions are identified by the tag <s></s>, additions by the
> underline tag.

Both according to HTML 4 and to HTML5 CR, deletion is to be marked with <del>, insertion with <ins>. In practice, their impact is simply that <del> causes overstriking, <ins> causes underlining. I don't think there is any browser, search engine, or other relevant program that cares about the "semantics" of these elements.

> (A March 27 note in the WebAIM archives expressed concerns that this
> tag is deprecated.

The <s> and elements are deprecated in HTML 4. In HTML5 CR, the situation is in principle worse: they are conforming elements, but their definitions are obscure and subject to varying interpretations. It's really just a way of "saving" these presentational tags.

In practice, using <s> and vs. <del> and <ins> does not really matter. I suppose they use <s> and , since they have longer history in HTML: they are supported by all graphic browsers (though possibly not all character cell browsers).

> Another note argued against
> using the <del> tag.)

I don't know why, but I can argue against the use of overstriking for deletion and underlining for insertion, no matter how you achieve that.
Overstriking makes text more difficult to read. Underlining is easily confused with links; it also breaks descenders of letters, somewhat decreasing legibility.

> Is there any reference source for standards for such revision marks?

Regarding HTML, the "standards" we have tell you to use <del> and <ins>.

You can do so, of course. But I would then consider using style sheets to make things more accessible to people using common graphic browsers visually. For example,

/* remove overstriking on mouseover: */
del:hover { text-decoration: none }
/* replace underlining by dashed line under in different color: */ ins { text-decoration: none; border-bottom: dashed green 2px; }

For non-visual browsing, you would need something else.

Yucca

From: Scott González
Date: Thu, Jan 09 2014 8:22AM
Subject: Re: Best practices showing revisions (strikethroughs, etc.)
← Previous message | Next message →

On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Wyant, Jay (MNIT) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> To make sure I am clear:
>
> - Both <del> or <s> are acceptable tags for strikethrough- the key is to
> alert the screenreader user to set to a proofreading scheme (in JAWS by
> pressing alt-insert-s). Otherwise the screen reader will simply ignore all
> text within those tags.
>

<del> is the semantically correct element; use it over <s>.

> - Would an alternative, such as this strikethrough code I found on Karl
> Groves' site work for all environments?: line-through;">
>

This is worse than <del> or <s> as it holds no semantic meaning.

From: SaravanaMoorthy.P@cognizant.com
Date: Thu, Jan 09 2014 11:17PM
Subject: Re: Best practices showing revisions (strikethroughs, etc.)
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Similar issue we faced where the actual price amount is stricken out(when there are some offers on particular product) and we used the traditional offscreen text
<div>
$5.00 Priced stricked out
</div>
Here the class auidoText contains the offscreen css properties.

This will be read in all screen readers and users are informed about the stricken amount.

Regards,
Saran.

-----Original Message-----
From: Scott González [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Thursday, January 09, 2014 8:52 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Best practices showing revisions (strikethroughs, etc.)

On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 10:09 AM, Wyant, Jay (MNIT) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> To make sure I am clear:
>
> - Both <del> or <s> are acceptable tags for strikethrough- the key is
> to alert the screenreader user to set to a proofreading scheme (in
> JAWS by pressing alt-insert-s). Otherwise the screen reader will
> simply ignore all text within those tags.
>

<del> is the semantically correct element; use it over <s>.

> - Would an alternative, such as this strikethrough code I found on
> Karl Groves' site work for all environments?: line-through;">
>

This is worse than <del> or <s> as it holds no semantic meaning.

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