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Number of posts in this thread: 8 (In chronological order)

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2014 2:50PM
Subject: Would pressing enter on a radiobutton in a <form > with onsubmit event be called under 3.2.2 ?
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Greetings everyone!

In keyboard only testing I realized that if you press enter on a
radiobutton in a form with a submit button and onsubmit attribute
triggers the submition of that form.
radiobuttons should only be checked using the spacebar key but it is
quite likely that some users may try to check radiobuttons using the
enter key.

Would this be a violation of 3.2.2 (on input), or just expected
browser behavior?
I tested in Firefox and IE, same result.
Cheers
-B
--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2014 2:56PM
Subject: Re: Would pressing enter on a radiobutton in a <form > with onsubmit event be called under 3.2.2 ?
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User errors are still considered user initiated. I know the user agent accessibility guidelines specifically call similar scenarios out.

Jonathan

> On Sep 10, 2014, at 4:51 PM, "Birkir R. Gunnarsson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> Greetings everyone!
>
> In keyboard only testing I realized that if you press enter on a
> radiobutton in a form with a submit button and onsubmit attribute
> triggers the submition of that form.
> radiobuttons should only be checked using the spacebar key but it is
> quite likely that some users may try to check radiobuttons using the
> enter key.
>
> Would this be a violation of 3.2.2 (on input), or just expected
> browser behavior?
> I tested in Firefox and IE, same result.
> Cheers
> -B
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > >

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2014 2:58PM
Subject: Re: Would pressing enter on a radiobutton in a <form > with onsubmit event be called under 3.2.2 ?
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Oh cool, I will go and find that particular phrase.
I want to be sure I have a consistent approach to these types of
things going forward, and make the right decision.
Thanks
-Birkir


On 9/10/14, Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> User errors are still considered user initiated. I know the user agent
> accessibility guidelines specifically call similar scenarios out.
>
> Jonathan
>
>> On Sep 10, 2014, at 4:51 PM, "Birkir R. Gunnarsson"
>> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>> Greetings everyone!
>>
>> In keyboard only testing I realized that if you press enter on a
>> radiobutton in a form with a submit button and onsubmit attribute
>> triggers the submition of that form.
>> radiobuttons should only be checked using the spacebar key but it is
>> quite likely that some users may try to check radiobuttons using the
>> enter key.
>>
>> Would this be a violation of 3.2.2 (on input), or just expected
>> browser behavior?
>> I tested in Firefox and IE, same result.
>> Cheers
>> -B
>> --
>> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>> >> >> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2014 3:09PM
Subject: Re: Would pressing enter on a radiobutton in a <form > with onsubmit event be called under 3.2.2 ?
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Birkir,

Should I understand from this that the radio button is being checked and then the form is submitted?

Susie Stanzel

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2014 3:53PM
Subject: Re: Would pressing enter on a radiobutton in a <form > with onsubmit event be called under 3.2.2 ?
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Suzie

I am not sure, this happens with keyboard only (not with a screen
reader, at least not consistently).
It is impossible to see the state of the radiobutton when the form is submitted.
I believe it gets checked but fro the client side I cannot be 100% certain.


On 9/10/14, Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Birkir,
>
> Should I understand from this that the radio button is being checked and
> then the form is submitted?
>
> Susie Stanzel
>
>

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2014 5:02PM
Subject: Re: Would pressing enter on a radiobutton in a <form > with onsubmit event be called under 3.2.2 ?
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My conclusion after some thought is that this is not a WCAG violation.
We always assme that users, be they users of assistive technology or
not, understand the patterns of interaction with the web (i.e. that
you use the spacebar to check radiobuttons).
And I do not see a way to call this under 2.1.1 (the element is
keyboard accessible), or 3.2.2 (as jOnathan pointed out, the user
initiates this action).
See also: http://tjvantoll.com/2013/01/01/enter-should-submit-forms-stop-messing-with-that/
I do not necessarily think that screen readers are as bothered by
people not using the form element as the author claims, they are
pretty smart applications and know to work around that, but this
article has at leat led me to the initial decisiontaht this is not an
accessibility violation.
I can be convinced otherwise if necessary.
Cheers
-Birkir



On 9/10/14, Birkir R. Gunnarsson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Suzie
>
> I am not sure, this happens with keyboard only (not with a screen
> reader, at least not consistently).
> It is impossible to see the state of the radiobutton when the form is
> submitted.
> I believe it gets checked but fro the client side I cannot be 100% certain.
>
>
> On 9/10/14, Stanzel, Susan - FSA, Kansas City, MO
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Birkir,
>>
>> Should I understand from this that the radio button is being checked and
>> then the form is submitted?
>>
>> Susie Stanzel
>>
>>

From: Mallory van Achterberg
Date: Wed, Sep 10 2014 9:41PM
Subject: Re: Would pressing enter on a radiobutton in a <form > with onsubmit event be called under 3.2.2 ?
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Hitting "Enter" has submitted forms since forever, with the
exception of Internet Explorer of old (not sure about recent ones)
which required first the user be focussed on the submit button.

While I've always liked that behaviour of IE, nobody else did it,
and on things like search forms, too many users expected to hit enter
from the text input (you'll find a lot of questions/complaints on
the internet from several years back about "why we can't submit
with Enter in IE" etc).

Users who keyboard for the first time (or had always used Opera
and now use anything else) will likely accidentally submit until
they learn the interface. Experienced keyboarders know better.

If you worry you have a lot of newbie keyboarders filling out your
form, you could always somewhat annoyingly intercept all submit()s
and present a confirm popup ("Are you sure you want to send this
form?") which lets users learn how to use radios/checkboxes without
constantly submitting forms... but this isn't something I personally
would do. :)

_mallory

On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 07:02:42PM -0400, Birkir R. Gunnarsson wrote:
> My conclusion after some thought is that this is not a WCAG violation.
> We always assme that users, be they users of assistive technology or
> not, understand the patterns of interaction with the web (i.e. that
> you use the spacebar to check radiobuttons).
> And I do not see a way to call this under 2.1.1 (the element is
> keyboard accessible), or 3.2.2 (as jOnathan pointed out, the user
> initiates this action).
> See also: http://tjvantoll.com/2013/01/01/enter-should-submit-forms-stop-messing-with-that/
> I do not necessarily think that screen readers are as bothered by
> people not using the form element as the author claims, they are
> pretty smart applications and know to work around that, but this
> article has at leat led me to the initial decisiontaht this is not an
> accessibility violation.
> I can be convinced otherwise if necessary.
> Cheers
> -Birkir

From: Hans Hillen
Date: Fri, Sep 19 2014 5:20PM
Subject: Re: Would pressing enter on a radiobutton in a <form > with onsubmit event be called under 3.2.2 ?
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Not a 3.2.2 violation as Enter is not used in "changing the interface
component's setting" (unless you're a screen reader user trying to enable
forms mode). But as mentioned above, users may not always be aware of this
and auto-submit behavior can be quite error prone when triggered
involuntarily. I personally do feel that for auto-submit behavior an extra
"are you sure?" popup would do more good than harm, provided of course you
can immediately confirm and dismiss it by pressing Enter a second time.
Again, only for auto-submit, not for regular a submit action like clicking
the submit button.

On Thu, Sep 11, 2014 at 3:41 PM, Mallory van Achterberg <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Hitting "Enter" has submitted forms since forever, with the
> exception of Internet Explorer of old (not sure about recent ones)
> which required first the user be focussed on the submit button.
>
> While I've always liked that behaviour of IE, nobody else did it,
> and on things like search forms, too many users expected to hit enter
> from the text input (you'll find a lot of questions/complaints on
> the internet from several years back about "why we can't submit
> with Enter in IE" etc).
>
> Users who keyboard for the first time (or had always used Opera
> and now use anything else) will likely accidentally submit until
> they learn the interface. Experienced keyboarders know better.
>
> If you worry you have a lot of newbie keyboarders filling out your
> form, you could always somewhat annoyingly intercept all submit()s
> and present a confirm popup ("Are you sure you want to send this
> form?") which lets users learn how to use radios/checkboxes without
> constantly submitting forms... but this isn't something I personally
> would do. :)
>
> _mallory
>
> On Wed, Sep 10, 2014 at 07:02:42PM -0400, Birkir R. Gunnarsson wrote:
> > My conclusion after some thought is that this is not a WCAG violation.
> > We always assme that users, be they users of assistive technology or
> > not, understand the patterns of interaction with the web (i.e. that
> > you use the spacebar to check radiobuttons).
> > And I do not see a way to call this under 2.1.1 (the element is
> > keyboard accessible), or 3.2.2 (as jOnathan pointed out, the user
> > initiates this action).
> > See also:
> http://tjvantoll.com/2013/01/01/enter-should-submit-forms-stop-messing-with-that/
> > I do not necessarily think that screen readers are as bothered by
> > people not using the form element as the author claims, they are
> > pretty smart applications and know to work around that, but this
> > article has at leat led me to the initial decisiontaht this is not an
> > accessibility violation.
> > I can be convinced otherwise if necessary.
> > Cheers
> > -Birkir
> > > >