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Thread: New blog post: To Hell with Compliance

Number of posts in this thread: 6 (In chronological order)

From: Karl Groves
Date: Tue, Jan 06 2015 9:40AM
Subject: New blog post: To Hell with Compliance
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http://www.karlgroves.com/2015/01/06/to-hell-with-compliance/

--

Karl Groves
www.karlgroves.com
@karlgroves
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
Phone: +1 410.541.6829

Modern Web Toolsets and Accessibility
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uq6Db47-Ks

www.tenon.io

From: Lucy Greco
Date: Tue, Jan 06 2015 10:57AM
Subject: Re: New blog post: To Hell with Compliance
← Previous message | Next message →

nice job i like your examples.

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Karl Groves < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> http://www.karlgroves.com/2015/01/06/to-hell-with-compliance/
>
> --
>
> Karl Groves
> www.karlgroves.com
> @karlgroves
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
> Phone: +1 410.541.6829
>
> Modern Web Toolsets and Accessibility
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uq6Db47-Ks
>
> www.tenon.io
> > > >

--
Lucia Greco
Web Accessibility Evangelist
IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
University of California, Berkeley
(510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
Follow me on twitter @accessaces

From: Lynn Holdsworth
Date: Tue, Jan 06 2015 11:29AM
Subject: Re: New blog post: To Hell with Compliance
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Karl,

For a moment there I thought that was a Joe Clark blog post you were linking to!

Nice article. I wanted to comment on your site but couldn't work out how.

I agree with you in the main, except that WCAG2 is a useful tool that
devs and designers not au fait with AT idiosyncrasies, cognitive load,
colour blindness and all the rest of it can use to measure how their
accessibility is coming along. Not having some sort of framework
leaves people no other option but to make it up as they go along.
WCAG2 may be far from perfect, but I'm glad we've got at least
something.

I agree that compliance is often a far cry from accessibility. But
I've worked with several devs who've started out wanting to do the
bare minimum and then got passionate about accessibility.

Standards aren't everything, but I'd say they're an intrinsic part of
the jigsaw.

Cheers, Lynn

On 06/01/2015, Lucy Greco < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> nice job i like your examples.
>
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Karl Groves < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> http://www.karlgroves.com/2015/01/06/to-hell-with-compliance/
>>
>> --
>>
>> Karl Groves
>> www.karlgroves.com
>> @karlgroves
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
>> Phone: +1 410.541.6829
>>
>> Modern Web Toolsets and Accessibility
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uq6Db47-Ks
>>
>> www.tenon.io
>> >> >> >>
>
>
>
> --
> Lucia Greco
> Web Accessibility Evangelist
> IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
> University of California, Berkeley
> (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
> http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
> Follow me on twitter @accessaces
> > > >

From: Karl Groves
Date: Tue, Jan 06 2015 11:52AM
Subject: Re: New blog post: To Hell with Compliance
← Previous message | Next message →

Lynn,

I agree. What I meant to highlight was that WCAG is a means toward the
end - the end being an accessible user experience

On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Lynn Holdsworth
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi Karl,
>
> For a moment there I thought that was a Joe Clark blog post you were linking to!
>
> Nice article. I wanted to comment on your site but couldn't work out how.
>
> I agree with you in the main, except that WCAG2 is a useful tool that
> devs and designers not au fait with AT idiosyncrasies, cognitive load,
> colour blindness and all the rest of it can use to measure how their
> accessibility is coming along. Not having some sort of framework
> leaves people no other option but to make it up as they go along.
> WCAG2 may be far from perfect, but I'm glad we've got at least
> something.
>
> I agree that compliance is often a far cry from accessibility. But
> I've worked with several devs who've started out wanting to do the
> bare minimum and then got passionate about accessibility.
>
> Standards aren't everything, but I'd say they're an intrinsic part of
> the jigsaw.
>
> Cheers, Lynn
>
> On 06/01/2015, Lucy Greco < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> nice job i like your examples.
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Karl Groves < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>>> http://www.karlgroves.com/2015/01/06/to-hell-with-compliance/
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Karl Groves
>>> www.karlgroves.com
>>> @karlgroves
>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
>>> Phone: +1 410.541.6829
>>>
>>> Modern Web Toolsets and Accessibility
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uq6Db47-Ks
>>>
>>> www.tenon.io
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lucia Greco
>> Web Accessibility Evangelist
>> IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
>> University of California, Berkeley
>> (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
>> http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
>> Follow me on twitter @accessaces
>> >> >> >>
> > > --

Karl Groves
www.karlgroves.com
@karlgroves
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
Phone: +1 410.541.6829

Modern Web Toolsets and Accessibility
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uq6Db47-Ks

www.tenon.io

From: Jukka K. Korpela
Date: Tue, Jan 06 2015 11:55AM
Subject: Re: New blog post: To Hell with Compliance
← Previous message | Next message →

2015-01-06, 18:40, Karl Groves wrote:

> http://www.karlgroves.com/2015/01/06/to-hell-with-compliance/

Im not sure whether I get the point, but it seems to be that the WCAG
2.0 requirements do not say that that the equivalent to the non-text
content must approximate, as closely as possible, the purpose and
meaning of the non-text content. However, the requirement quoted refers
to a text alternative that serves the equivalent purpose. To me, this
appears as a stricter requirement: it requires equivalence, not just
best approximation to equivalence. Such a strict requirement is
unrealistic, but thats a different issue.

Regarding the failures list, theres F30: Failure of Success Criterion
1.1.1 and 1.2.1 due to using text alternatives that are not
alternatives. The name of the failure and its description could be
improved, since as written, they are self-contradictory (alternatives
are not alternatives) or obscure (the reader is expected to understand
the word alternative in two different meanings. It would be better
formulated by saying text alternatives that are not equivalent to the
non-text content.

In reality, equivalence is often impossible, and then it becomes
important to distinguish between degrees of correspondence. But this
means that the current criteria for compliance are too strict, rather
than too vague.

Yucca

From: Lynn Holdsworth
Date: Wed, Jan 07 2015 1:10AM
Subject: Re: New blog post: To Hell with Compliance
← Previous message | No next message

No worries Karl, that sentiment did come across when reading the
article. But it has quite a sensationalist headline that I suspect
will get misquoted and misunderstood along the way.

Cheers, Lynn

On 06/01/2015, Karl Groves < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Lynn,
>
> I agree. What I meant to highlight was that WCAG is a means toward the
> end - the end being an accessible user experience
>
> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 1:29 PM, Lynn Holdsworth
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Hi Karl,
>>
>> For a moment there I thought that was a Joe Clark blog post you were
>> linking to!
>>
>> Nice article. I wanted to comment on your site but couldn't work out how.
>>
>> I agree with you in the main, except that WCAG2 is a useful tool that
>> devs and designers not au fait with AT idiosyncrasies, cognitive load,
>> colour blindness and all the rest of it can use to measure how their
>> accessibility is coming along. Not having some sort of framework
>> leaves people no other option but to make it up as they go along.
>> WCAG2 may be far from perfect, but I'm glad we've got at least
>> something.
>>
>> I agree that compliance is often a far cry from accessibility. But
>> I've worked with several devs who've started out wanting to do the
>> bare minimum and then got passionate about accessibility.
>>
>> Standards aren't everything, but I'd say they're an intrinsic part of
>> the jigsaw.
>>
>> Cheers, Lynn
>>
>> On 06/01/2015, Lucy Greco < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>> nice job i like your examples.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 6, 2015 at 8:40 AM, Karl Groves < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>
>>>> http://www.karlgroves.com/2015/01/06/to-hell-with-compliance/
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Karl Groves
>>>> www.karlgroves.com
>>>> @karlgroves
>>>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
>>>> Phone: +1 410.541.6829
>>>>
>>>> Modern Web Toolsets and Accessibility
>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uq6Db47-Ks
>>>>
>>>> www.tenon.io
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lucia Greco
>>> Web Accessibility Evangelist
>>> IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
>>> University of California, Berkeley
>>> (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
>>> http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
>>> Follow me on twitter @accessaces
>>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >> >> >
>
>
> --
>
> Karl Groves
> www.karlgroves.com
> @karlgroves
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
> Phone: +1 410.541.6829
>
> Modern Web Toolsets and Accessibility
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uq6Db47-Ks
>
> www.tenon.io
> > > >