E-mail List Archives

Search E-mail List Archives for

Number of posts in this thread: 4 (In chronological order)

From: MEJ - Beth Sullivan
Date: Wed, Feb 04 2015 2:15PM
Subject: Is the declaration "Document" that aria role="document" says to a screen reader ever confusing?
No previous message | Next message →

Hello,

The way that the company deals with modal overlays is to have a <div
role="dialog"><div role="document">...</div></div>.

I believe this was devised to support our IE8 browser requirements. My
testing team who is doing the accessibility testing noted that the title of
the modal "Change Record" is followed by the screen reader saying
"document" because of the role="document".

My question is does this confuse screenreader users. My gut says that
screenreader users are accustomed to hearing "… Document". I'm not a
screenreader users though, I would love to hear your perspectives and/or
other testers' experiences.

Thank you,
Beth

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, Feb 04 2015 2:41PM
Subject: Re: Is the declaration "Document" that aria role="document" says to a screen reader ever confusing?
← Previous message | Next message →

role document is to define a browsable area in an application region.
For a small dialog with a short message and a couple of buttons it is
not necessary. It was strongly recommended due to an NVDA bug that did
not enable users to turn off application mode while dialog was open
)this was fixed back in early 2014 or even late 2013, typical
responsive NVDA fashion), and now role document does very little for
any screen reader, and I usually recommend removing it unless the
dialog text is long or contains a lot of detail the user may need to
review and memorize or copy (such as a phone number, id, or similar).
Good rule of thumb for dialog is that it needs a label (via aria-label
or aria-labelledby) and should have an aria-describedby which points
to the dialog message. Focus should land on one of the dialog buttons
when dialog opens, probably the button user is most likely to use.
For a larger dialog with a lot of detail, the dialog message should
receive focus and role document is probably advisable in that
situation.


On 2/4/15, MEJ - Beth Sullivan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hello,
>
> The way that the company deals with modal overlays is to have a <div
> role="dialog"><div role="document">...</div></div>.
>
> I believe this was devised to support our IE8 browser requirements. My
> testing team who is doing the accessibility testing noted that the title of
> the modal "Change Record" is followed by the screen reader saying
> "document" because of the role="document".
>
> My question is does this confuse screenreader users. My gut says that
> screenreader users are accustomed to hearing "... Document". I'm not a
> screenreader users though, I would love to hear your perspectives and/or
> other testers' experiences.
>
> Thank you,
> Beth
> > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: MEJ - Beth Sullivan
Date: Wed, Feb 04 2015 3:37PM
Subject: Re: Is the declaration "Document" that aria role="document" says to a screen reader ever confusing?
← Previous message | Next message →

It is definitely a more full dialog. It is a form within a modal dialog
with multiple steps. (Form > Confirm/Review > Thank you)

It is interesting to know that NVDA had an issue with this though. Do many
screen reader users know now to get out of application mode in a dialog?

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> role document is to define a browsable area in an application region.
> For a small dialog with a short message and a couple of buttons it is
> not necessary. It was strongly recommended due to an NVDA bug that did
> not enable users to turn off application mode while dialog was open
> )this was fixed back in early 2014 or even late 2013, typical
> responsive NVDA fashion), and now role document does very little for
> any screen reader, and I usually recommend removing it unless the
> dialog text is long or contains a lot of detail the user may need to
> review and memorize or copy (such as a phone number, id, or similar).
> Good rule of thumb for dialog is that it needs a label (via aria-label
> or aria-labelledby) and should have an aria-describedby which points
> to the dialog message. Focus should land on one of the dialog buttons
> when dialog opens, probably the button user is most likely to use.
> For a larger dialog with a lot of detail, the dialog message should
> receive focus and role document is probably advisable in that
> situation.
>
>
> On 2/4/15, MEJ - Beth Sullivan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Hello,
> >
> > The way that the company deals with modal overlays is to have a <div
> > role="dialog"><div role="document">...</div></div>.
> >
> > I believe this was devised to support our IE8 browser requirements. My
> > testing team who is doing the accessibility testing noted that the title
> of
> > the modal "Change Record" is followed by the screen reader saying
> > "document" because of the role="document".
> >
> > My question is does this confuse screenreader users. My gut says that
> > screenreader users are accustomed to hearing "... Document". I'm not a
> > screenreader users though, I would love to hear your perspectives and/or
> > other testers' experiences.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Beth
> > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > >

From: Paul Bohman
Date: Fri, Feb 06 2015 12:55AM
Subject: Re: Is the declaration "Document" that aria role="document" says to a screen reader ever confusing?
← Previous message | No next message

Correct me if I'm wrong, Birkir, but here's how I understand things:

If there is a lot of content in the dialog, or if there is a chance that
screen reader users would need to do things like select the text, listen to
the spelling of words, or do other similar operations with the text, then I
think role="document" is necessary.

If you just use aria-describedby, users will hear the text, but it will
come all at once, and you can't pause the reader and then continue where it
left off. You'd have to listen to the whole aria-describedby text as a
single unit of text.


Paul Bohman, PhD
Director of Training
Deque Systems, Inc
www.deque.com
703-225-0380, ext.121

On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 2:37 PM, MEJ - Beth Sullivan <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> It is definitely a more full dialog. It is a form within a modal dialog
> with multiple steps. (Form > Confirm/Review > Thank you)
>
> It is interesting to know that NVDA had an issue with this though. Do many
> screen reader users know now to get out of application mode in a dialog?
>
> On Wed, Feb 4, 2015 at 4:41 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > role document is to define a browsable area in an application region.
> > For a small dialog with a short message and a couple of buttons it is
> > not necessary. It was strongly recommended due to an NVDA bug that did
> > not enable users to turn off application mode while dialog was open
> > )this was fixed back in early 2014 or even late 2013, typical
> > responsive NVDA fashion), and now role document does very little for
> > any screen reader, and I usually recommend removing it unless the
> > dialog text is long or contains a lot of detail the user may need to
> > review and memorize or copy (such as a phone number, id, or similar).
> > Good rule of thumb for dialog is that it needs a label (via aria-label
> > or aria-labelledby) and should have an aria-describedby which points
> > to the dialog message. Focus should land on one of the dialog buttons
> > when dialog opens, probably the button user is most likely to use.
> > For a larger dialog with a lot of detail, the dialog message should
> > receive focus and role document is probably advisable in that
> > situation.
> >
> >
> > On 2/4/15, MEJ - Beth Sullivan < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > The way that the company deals with modal overlays is to have a <div
> > > role="dialog"><div role="document">...</div></div>.
> > >
> > > I believe this was devised to support our IE8 browser requirements. My
> > > testing team who is doing the accessibility testing noted that the
> title
> > of
> > > the modal "Change Record" is followed by the screen reader saying
> > > "document" because of the role="document".
> > >
> > > My question is does this confuse screenreader users. My gut says that
> > > screenreader users are accustomed to hearing "... Document". I'm not a
> > > screenreader users though, I would love to hear your perspectives
> and/or
> > > other testers' experiences.
> > >
> > > Thank you,
> > > Beth
> > > > > > > > > > > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > >
> > > >