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From: Jonathan Robert Pool
Date: Fri, Mar 02 2018 11:12PM
Subject: "Naming Generic Landmarks" errors reported by Siteimprove extension
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As part of my a11y R&D, I am developing an application to produce accessible résumés (jsonresume-theme-a11y).

To monitor its progress in achieving accessibility, I have compared it against some competitors with 6 freely available tools.

The only tool that finds errors in what my application produces is Siteimprove. Almost all the errors it finds are violations of Guideline 1.3.1. Siteimprove says in each case that I must "Use either the WAI-ARIA attribute 'aria-label' or 'aria-labelledby' to name the landmark".

These landmarks are HTML section elements. Each of them has a title attribute whose value describes the nature of the section.

The Siteimprove diagnosis seems to say that the title attributes are not enough. But WAI-ARIA 1.1 says in its section on the aria-label property, "Most host languages provide an attribute that could be used to name the element (e.g., the title attribute in HTML), yet this could present a browser tooltip. In the cases where a visible label or visible tooltip is undesirable, authors MAY set the accessible name of the element using aria-label." To me that means a title is sufficient, and no additional label is necessary. When I test the page with VoiceOver, it reads each section's title right after "Section". Am I misunderstanding something, or is this particular diagnosis asking for more than WAI-ARIA requires?

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Sat, Mar 03 2018 7:09AM
Subject: Re: "Naming Generic Landmarks" errors reported by Siteimprove extension
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No, you got it exactly right.
The <section> element only maps to a landmark if it has an accessible name.
If you used one without any source of accessible name, it shouldn't be
treated as a landmark and flagged as an accessibility error.
If you provide a source of accessible name (and the title attribute is
a valid one) it is a named landmark, so it should not be reported as a
violation.

I've reported this bug to them, (well, not directly but through a
friend who is a website admin who uses SiteImprove).


The only thing to note here is that even when the title attribute is a
source of accessible name for landmarks its support by user agents may
not be as strong as for the aria-label or aria-labelledby attributes.
I haven't tested this, but it is a matter of user agent support, it's
still a valid code construct.


On 3/3/18, Jonathan Robert Pool < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> As part of my a11y R&D, I am developing an application to produce accessible
> résumés (jsonresume-theme-a11y).
>
> To monitor its progress in achieving accessibility, I have compared it
> against some competitors with 6 freely available tools.
>
> The only tool that finds errors in what my application produces is
> Siteimprove. Almost all the errors it finds are violations of Guideline
> 1.3.1. Siteimprove says in each case that I must "Use either the WAI-ARIA
> attribute 'aria-label' or 'aria-labelledby' to name the landmark".
>
> These landmarks are HTML section elements. Each of them has a title
> attribute whose value describes the nature of the section.
>
> The Siteimprove diagnosis seems to say that the title attributes are not
> enough. But WAI-ARIA 1.1 says in its section on the aria-label property,
> "Most host languages provide an attribute that could be used to name the
> element (e.g., the title attribute in HTML), yet this could present a
> browser tooltip. In the cases where a visible label or visible tooltip is
> undesirable, authors MAY set the accessible name of the element using
> aria-label." To me that means a title is sufficient, and no additional label
> is necessary. When I test the page with VoiceOver, it reads each section's
> title right after "Section". Am I misunderstanding something, or is this
> particular diagnosis asking for more than WAI-ARIA requires?
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Steve Faulkner
Date: Sat, Mar 03 2018 7:30AM
Subject: Re: "Naming Generic Landmarks" errors reported by Siteimprove extension
← Previous message | Next message →

Also note that using the title attribute will result in a tooltip being
displayed whenever the users has their mouse pointer of content with the
section, which can be annoying to say the least. Use of aria-label on the
section is therefore preferred.

--

Regards

SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;

On 3 March 2018 at 14:09, Birkir R. Gunnarsson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> No, you got it exactly right.
> The <section> element only maps to a landmark if it has an accessible name.
> If you used one without any source of accessible name, it shouldn't be
> treated as a landmark and flagged as an accessibility error.
> If you provide a source of accessible name (and the title attribute is
> a valid one) it is a named landmark, so it should not be reported as a
> violation.
>
> I've reported this bug to them, (well, not directly but through a
> friend who is a website admin who uses SiteImprove).
>
>
> The only thing to note here is that even when the title attribute is a
> source of accessible name for landmarks its support by user agents may
> not be as strong as for the aria-label or aria-labelledby attributes.
> I haven't tested this, but it is a matter of user agent support, it's
> still a valid code construct.
>
>
> On 3/3/18, Jonathan Robert Pool < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > As part of my a11y R&D, I am developing an application to produce
> accessible
> > résumés (jsonresume-theme-a11y).
> >
> > To monitor its progress in achieving accessibility, I have compared it
> > against some competitors with 6 freely available tools.
> >
> > The only tool that finds errors in what my application produces is
> > Siteimprove. Almost all the errors it finds are violations of Guideline
> > 1.3.1. Siteimprove says in each case that I must "Use either the WAI-ARIA
> > attribute 'aria-label' or 'aria-labelledby' to name the landmark".
> >
> > These landmarks are HTML section elements. Each of them has a title
> > attribute whose value describes the nature of the section.
> >
> > The Siteimprove diagnosis seems to say that the title attributes are not
> > enough. But WAI-ARIA 1.1 says in its section on the aria-label property,
> > "Most host languages provide an attribute that could be used to name the
> > element (e.g., the title attribute in HTML), yet this could present a
> > browser tooltip. In the cases where a visible label or visible tooltip is
> > undesirable, authors MAY set the accessible name of the element using
> > aria-label." To me that means a title is sufficient, and no additional
> label
> > is necessary. When I test the page with VoiceOver, it reads each
> section's
> > title right after "Section". Am I misunderstanding something, or is this
> > particular diagnosis asking for more than WAI-ARIA requires?
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > >

From: Jonathan Robert Pool
Date: Sat, Mar 03 2018 12:42PM
Subject: Re: "Naming Generic Landmarks" errors reported by Siteimprove extension
← Previous message | Next message →

> From: "Birkir R. Gunnarsson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] "Naming Generic Landmarks" errors reported by Siteimprove extension
> Date: 3 March, 2018 at 06:09:14 PST
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
> If you provide a source of accessible name (and the title attribute is
> a valid one) it is a named landmark, so it should not be reported as a
> violation.
>
> I've reported this bug to them

> The only thing to note here is that even when the title attribute is a
> source of accessible name for landmarks its support by user agents may
> not be as strong as for the aria-label or aria-labelledby attributes.

Thanks much for this additional information.

> From: Steve Faulkner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] "Naming Generic Landmarks" errors reported by Siteimprove extension
> Date: 3 March, 2018 at 06:30:52 PST
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>
>
> Also note that using the title attribute will result in a tooltip being
> displayed whenever the users has their mouse pointer of content with the
> section

Yes, in this case that is an intended behavior, and that's why I chose to use a title attribute.

From: Steve Faulkner
Date: Sat, Mar 03 2018 1:13PM
Subject: Re: "Naming Generic Landmarks" errors reported by Siteimprove extension
← Previous message | No next message

>Yes, in this case that is an intended behavior, >and that's why I chose to
use a title attribute.

So it's information that's important enough to be displayed to mouse users
but not to keyboard or touch users?

Your intention is unclear to me.


On Saturday, 3 March 2018, Jonathan Robert Pool < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> > From: "Birkir R. Gunnarsson" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] "Naming Generic Landmarks" errors reported by
> Siteimprove extension
> > Date: 3 March, 2018 at 06:09:14 PST
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >
> > If you provide a source of accessible name (and the title attribute is
> > a valid one) it is a named landmark, so it should not be reported as a
> > violation.
> >
> > I've reported this bug to them
>
> > The only thing to note here is that even when the title attribute is a
> > source of accessible name for landmarks its support by user agents may
> > not be as strong as for the aria-label or aria-labelledby attributes.
>
> Thanks much for this additional information.
>
> > From: Steve Faulkner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] "Naming Generic Landmarks" errors reported by
> Siteimprove extension
> > Date: 3 March, 2018 at 06:30:52 PST
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> >
> >
> > Also note that using the title attribute will result in a tooltip being
> > displayed whenever the users has their mouse pointer of content with the
> > section
>
> Yes, in this case that is an intended behavior, and that's why I chose to
> use a title attribute.
>
> > > > >


--
--

Regards

SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;