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From: Isabel Holdsworth
Date: Tue, Apr 17 2018 8:19AM
Subject: Fieldset/legend as label for textbox or textarea?
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Hi all,

We're currently using a fieldset/legend wrapper to label some of our
textboxes, but it doesn't work well with JAWS.

This feels like an incorrect use of fieldset/legend to me, as it's
supposed to be a group label for checkboxes or radiobuttons.

Would fieldset/legend in this scenario be enough to pass WCAG2, or
would it fail on 2.4.6 (headings and labels) and/or 4.1.2 (name, role,
value)?

Thanks as always.

From: Steve Faulkner
Date: Tue, Apr 17 2018 8:32AM
Subject: Re: Fieldset/legend as label for textbox or textarea?
← Previous message | Next message →

>This feels like an incorrect use of fieldset/legend to me, as it's
>supposed to be a group label for checkboxes or radiobuttons.

you are correct, use <label> for individual checkboxes and radio buttons,
fieldset/legend for group labels.

--

Regards

SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;

On 17 April 2018 at 15:19, Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> We're currently using a fieldset/legend wrapper to label some of our
> textboxes, but it doesn't work well with JAWS.
>
> This feels like an incorrect use of fieldset/legend to me, as it's
> supposed to be a group label for checkboxes or radiobuttons.
>
> Would fieldset/legend in this scenario be enough to pass WCAG2, or
> would it fail on 2.4.6 (headings and labels) and/or 4.1.2 (name, role,
> value)?
>
> Thanks as always.
> > > > >

From: Isabel Holdsworth
Date: Tue, Apr 17 2018 8:42AM
Subject: Re: Fieldset/legend as label for textbox or textarea?
← Previous message | Next message →

Much appreciated as always Steve. My justification for fixing this
needs to be WCAG-based - would you say this is a fail or rather an
edge case?

Cheers.

On 17/04/2018, Steve Faulkner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>This feels like an incorrect use of fieldset/legend to me, as it's
>>supposed to be a group label for checkboxes or radiobuttons.
>
> you are correct, use <label> for individual checkboxes and radio buttons,
> fieldset/legend for group labels.
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> Current Standards Work @W3C
> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;
>
> On 17 April 2018 at 15:19, Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We're currently using a fieldset/legend wrapper to label some of our
>> textboxes, but it doesn't work well with JAWS.
>>
>> This feels like an incorrect use of fieldset/legend to me, as it's
>> supposed to be a group label for checkboxes or radiobuttons.
>>
>> Would fieldset/legend in this scenario be enough to pass WCAG2, or
>> would it fail on 2.4.6 (headings and labels) and/or 4.1.2 (name, role,
>> value)?
>>
>> Thanks as always.
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Tue, Apr 17 2018 9:13AM
Subject: Re: Fieldset/legend as label for textbox or textarea?
← Previous message | Next message →

<fieldset>/<legend> does not assign an accessiblename to individual
form fields, so it is a fail of 4.1.2
It assigns a name to a group and the form field is part of that group,
but it does not assign the name to the field itself.
In the absence of anything else, a screen rader may assign the group
label to the field, rather than saying nothing, but technically it has
no name.
Also, it could be argued thatthis vilates WCAG 1.3.1 if a visible
label is not properly associated with the input control (and it
reduces the size of the click target by not including the label text).

If the legend text is clearly associated with form fields visually it
is sufficient to give them a screen reader only label (using
aria-label or title).
See technique h65:
http://www.w3.org/TR/2016/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20161007/H65
(but this is questionabl, because it does not create he aforementioned
larger click target).

Ditto if the visual labeling is done by an adjacent control.
See general technique 167:
http://www.w3.org/TR/2016/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20161007/G167
(same problem).



On 4/17/18, Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Much appreciated as always Steve. My justification for fixing this
> needs to be WCAG-based - would you say this is a fail or rather an
> edge case?
>
> Cheers.
>
> On 17/04/2018, Steve Faulkner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>This feels like an incorrect use of fieldset/legend to me, as it's
>>>supposed to be a group label for checkboxes or radiobuttons.
>>
>> you are correct, use <label> for individual checkboxes and radio buttons,
>> fieldset/legend for group labels.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> SteveF
>> Current Standards Work @W3C
>> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;
>>
>> On 17 April 2018 at 15:19, Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> We're currently using a fieldset/legend wrapper to label some of our
>>> textboxes, but it doesn't work well with JAWS.
>>>
>>> This feels like an incorrect use of fieldset/legend to me, as it's
>>> supposed to be a group label for checkboxes or radiobuttons.
>>>
>>> Would fieldset/legend in this scenario be enough to pass WCAG2, or
>>> would it fail on 2.4.6 (headings and labels) and/or 4.1.2 (name, role,
>>> value)?
>>>
>>> Thanks as always.
>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Isabel Holdsworth
Date: Wed, Apr 18 2018 3:17AM
Subject: Re: Fieldset/legend as label for textbox or textarea?
← Previous message | No next message

Cheers Birkir, you're a minefield of useful info :-)

On 17/04/2018, Birkir R. Gunnarsson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> <fieldset>/<legend> does not assign an accessiblename to individual
> form fields, so it is a fail of 4.1.2
> It assigns a name to a group and the form field is part of that group,
> but it does not assign the name to the field itself.
> In the absence of anything else, a screen rader may assign the group
> label to the field, rather than saying nothing, but technically it has
> no name.
> Also, it could be argued thatthis vilates WCAG 1.3.1 if a visible
> label is not properly associated with the input control (and it
> reduces the size of the click target by not including the label text).
>
> If the legend text is clearly associated with form fields visually it
> is sufficient to give them a screen reader only label (using
> aria-label or title).
> See technique h65:
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2016/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20161007/H65
> (but this is questionabl, because it does not create he aforementioned
> larger click target).
>
> Ditto if the visual labeling is done by an adjacent control.
> See general technique 167:
> http://www.w3.org/TR/2016/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20161007/G167
> (same problem).
>
>
>
> On 4/17/18, Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Much appreciated as always Steve. My justification for fixing this
>> needs to be WCAG-based - would you say this is a fail or rather an
>> edge case?
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>> On 17/04/2018, Steve Faulkner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>>This feels like an incorrect use of fieldset/legend to me, as it's
>>>>supposed to be a group label for checkboxes or radiobuttons.
>>>
>>> you are correct, use <label> for individual checkboxes and radio buttons,
>>> fieldset/legend for group labels.
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> SteveF
>>> Current Standards Work @W3C
>>> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;
>>>
>>> On 17 April 2018 at 15:19, Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> We're currently using a fieldset/legend wrapper to label some of our
>>>> textboxes, but it doesn't work well with JAWS.
>>>>
>>>> This feels like an incorrect use of fieldset/legend to me, as it's
>>>> supposed to be a group label for checkboxes or radiobuttons.
>>>>
>>>> Would fieldset/legend in this scenario be enough to pass WCAG2, or
>>>> would it fail on 2.4.6 (headings and labels) and/or 4.1.2 (name, role,
>>>> value)?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks as always.
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > >