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Thread: aria-label issue with JAWS
Number of posts in this thread: 12 (In chronological order)
From: Kakarla Meharoon
Date: Wed, Jul 18 2018 1:19AM
Subject: aria-label issue with JAWS
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hi everyone
In IE browser aria-label is not read out by the JAWS and aria-label is
present on the UL element
*Thanks*
From: Mohith BP
Date: Wed, Jul 18 2018 2:29AM
Subject: Re: aria-label issue with JAWS
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Do you have provided any valid role for <ul>?
On 7/18/18, Kakarla Meharoon < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> hi everyone
>
> In IE browser aria-label is not read out by the JAWS and aria-label is
> present on the UL element
>
>
> *Thanks*
> > > > >
From: Kakarla Meharoon
Date: Wed, Jul 18 2018 2:31AM
Subject: Re: aria-label issue with JAWS
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No.
I have not provided any role to that ul.
From: Mohith BP
Date: Wed, Jul 18 2018 2:44AM
Subject: Re: aria-label issue with JAWS
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JAWS wont read the aria-label then.
On 7/18/18, Kakarla Meharoon < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> No.
>
> I have not provided any role to that ul.
> > > > >
From: Bim Egan
Date: Wed, Jul 18 2018 3:01AM
Subject: Re: aria-label issue with JAWS
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If you give a little info on why you want to label the list, maybe someone
on here can give you a clue on how to achieve what you want.
-------------
Bim Egan
----------------------------------------
Partner: AccessEquals
W: www.accessequals.com
E: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: Kakarla Meharoon
Date: Wed, Jul 18 2018 3:21AM
Subject: Re: aria-label issue with JAWS
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Hi,
The issue is related to tree structure we are using ul and li for the tree
items and tree elements or nodes having check boxes also so thats the
reason if we add role="tree" for the ul wrapper and aria-label the labels
are not read out by the screen reader.
So we have done custom approach here
Because JAWS is preventing the preferred arrow key navigation from working
(as noted below, it is fine when the screen reader is not active).
This is why we are deliberately changing to tabstop triangular icons and
enter to expand/collapse. It also improves the visibility of the tree when
scrolling with arrow keys, as the visibility now follows the tab focus
(previously it could be lost/scrolled offscreen).
The issue of JAWS interfering with the arrow key navigation occurs for
example in the official Kendo UI Tree keyboard navigation demo (fine
without JAWS, broken when screenreader is active):
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, Jul 18 2018 5:16AM
Subject: Re: aria-label issue with JAWS
← Previous message | Next message →
As for Jaws not reading aria-label on a <ul> element, that's simply a
bug. aria-label is valid with any role, including implicit roles (a
<ul> has an implicit role of list).
You could try to add role="list" to the <ul> element to see if it
makes a difference. I know you are not supposed to duplicate the
implicit role but sometimes it helps with assistive technology
behavior.
As for the demo, can you post a link to it?
Have you tried any of the tree examples from the ARIA Authoring Practices?
On 7/18/18, Kakarla Meharoon < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> The issue is related to tree structure we are using ul and li for the tree
> items and tree elements or nodes having check boxes also so thats the
> reason if we add role="tree" for the ul wrapper and aria-label the labels
> are not read out by the screen reader.
> So we have done custom approach here
>
> Because JAWS is preventing the preferred arrow key navigation from working
> (as noted below, it is fine when the screen reader is not active).
>
> This is why we are deliberately changing to tabstop triangular icons and
> enter to expand/collapse. It also improves the visibility of the tree when
> scrolling with arrow keys, as the visibility now follows the tab focus
> (previously it could be lost/scrolled offscreen).
>
> The issue of JAWS interfering with the arrow key navigation occurs for
> example in the official Kendo UI Tree keyboard navigation demo (fine
> without JAWS, broken when screenreader is active):
> > > > >
--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
From: Maxability A11Y
Date: Wed, Jul 18 2018 8:31AM
Subject: Re: aria-label issue with JAWS
← Previous message | Next message →
Here is a working example of treeview, if it helps.
https://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/examples/treeview/treeview-2/treeview-2a.html
I have checked with NVDA 2018.2 Firefox61 and JAWS 2018 on Chrome. The only
difference I could observe is that NVDA says expand and collapse while JAWS
says Open and close.
Hope it helps.
Thanks & Regards
Rakesh
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018 at 4:46 PM, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> As for Jaws not reading aria-label on a <ul> element, that's simply a
> bug. aria-label is valid with any role, including implicit roles (a
> <ul> has an implicit role of list).
> You could try to add role="list" to the <ul> element to see if it
> makes a difference. I know you are not supposed to duplicate the
> implicit role but sometimes it helps with assistive technology
> behavior.
> As for the demo, can you post a link to it?
> Have you tried any of the tree examples from the ARIA Authoring Practices?
>
>
>
> On 7/18/18, Kakarla Meharoon < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > The issue is related to tree structure we are using ul and li for the
> tree
> > items and tree elements or nodes having check boxes also so thats the
> > reason if we add role="tree" for the ul wrapper and aria-label the labels
> > are not read out by the screen reader.
> > So we have done custom approach here
> >
> > Because JAWS is preventing the preferred arrow key navigation from
> working
> > (as noted below, it is fine when the screen reader is not active).
> >
> > This is why we are deliberately changing to tabstop triangular icons and
> > enter to expand/collapse. It also improves the visibility of the tree
> when
> > scrolling with arrow keys, as the visibility now follows the tab focus
> > (previously it could be lost/scrolled offscreen).
> >
> > The issue of JAWS interfering with the arrow key navigation occurs for
> > example in the official Kendo UI Tree keyboard navigation demo (fine
> > without JAWS, broken when screenreader is active):
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > >
From: Mallory
Date: Thu, Jul 19 2018 3:37AM
Subject: Re: aria-label issue with JAWS
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Hi,
UL's already have a "list" role by default, but having a role isn't enough a lot of the time, especially for IE.
https://developer.paciellogroup.com/blog/2017/07/short-note-on-aria-label-aria-labelledby-and-aria-describedby/
It mentions IE specifically, where Microsoft has a thing in their API where they look for either certain roles OR a tabindex to decide whether an object is "accessible" and therefore can have accessibility thingies in it like aria-foo.
cheers,
Mallory
On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Mohith BP wrote:
> Do you have provided any valid role for <ul>?
>
> On 7/18/18, Kakarla Meharoon < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > hi everyone
> >
> > In IE browser aria-label is not read out by the JAWS and aria-label is
> > present on the UL element
> >
> >
> > *Thanks*
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > >
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Thu, Jul 19 2018 4:46AM
Subject: Re: aria-label issue with JAWS
← Previous message | Next message →
I added aria-label to ul elements, with and without tabindex="-1".
IE11 on Windows 10 announced the aria-label value on both.
On 7/19/18, Mallory < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> UL's already have a "list" role by default, but having a role isn't enough a
> lot of the time, especially for IE.
> https://developer.paciellogroup.com/blog/2017/07/short-note-on-aria-label-aria-labelledby-and-aria-describedby/
>
> It mentions IE specifically, where Microsoft has a thing in their API where
> they look for either certain roles OR a tabindex to decide whether an object
> is "accessible" and therefore can have accessibility thingies in it like
> aria-foo.
>
> cheers,
> Mallory
>
> On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Mohith BP wrote:
>> Do you have provided any valid role for <ul>?
>>
>> On 7/18/18, Kakarla Meharoon < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> > hi everyone
>> >
>> > In IE browser aria-label is not read out by the JAWS and aria-label is
>> > present on the UL element
>> >
>> >
>> > *Thanks*
>> > >> > >> > >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> > > > > >
--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
From: Steve Faulkner
Date: Thu, Jul 19 2018 4:54AM
Subject: Re: aria-label issue with JAWS
← Previous message | Next message →
some tests I did yesterday may be of interest
https://s.codepen.io/stevef/debug/BPzMML
--
Regards
SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;
On 19 July 2018 at 11:46, Birkir R. Gunnarsson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> I added aria-label to ul elements, with and without tabindex="-1".
> IE11 on Windows 10 announced the aria-label value on both.
>
>
> On 7/19/18, Mallory < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > UL's already have a "list" role by default, but having a role isn't
> enough a
> > lot of the time, especially for IE.
> > https://developer.paciellogroup.com/blog/2017/
> 07/short-note-on-aria-label-aria-labelledby-and-aria-describedby/
> >
> > It mentions IE specifically, where Microsoft has a thing in their API
> where
> > they look for either certain roles OR a tabindex to decide whether an
> object
> > is "accessible" and therefore can have accessibility thingies in it like
> > aria-foo.
> >
> > cheers,
> > Mallory
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Mohith BP wrote:
> >> Do you have provided any valid role for <ul>?
> >>
> >> On 7/18/18, Kakarla Meharoon < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >> > hi everyone
> >> >
> >> > In IE browser aria-label is not read out by the JAWS and aria-label is
> >> > present on the UL element
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > *Thanks*
> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >
> >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > >
From: Robert Fentress
Date: Thu, Jul 19 2018 1:13PM
Subject: Re: aria-label issue with JAWS
← Previous message | No next message
As regards labels on <ul> tags, here is something I posted recently on the
a11y slack workspace in response to Karkala's question posted there:
"For JAWS 18 using IE 11, when `aria-label` is placed on a `<ul>`, the
label is surfaced when you enter the list using the virtual cursor (using
the down arrow to progress forward through the document while in Virtual
Mode). If you move into the list by tabbing, though, assuming your list
contains focusable items, the label of the list you have entered will not
be surfaced when the item in the list receives focus. If you place the
list in a `<div>` and change the role of the `<div>` to `group` using
`role="group"`, and then add `aria-label` to that `<div>`, you can get the
label to be voiced in either case. While this is the most reliable way of
getting the label to be voiced, I usually wouldn't recommend it, since you
are adding another grouping structure around something that is already,
essentially, a group (the `<ul>`). However, it probably depends on how
important it is in your context that the label be surfaced reliably in all
contexts in all screen readers. "
SteveF, I noticed that your tests don't check to see how the user accesses
the labelled list, which informs whether or not it is surfaced in JAWS/IE.
Whether this is expected behavior or not, I'm not sure, but it is good to
know.
One thing I'm curious about as regards the relationship between lists and
groups is whether lists are properly considered a special type of the group
role or what. The spec seems to indicate there is some sort of
commonality, since groups can contain list items, but it is a bit
confusing. Actually, exploring further, it looks like they are both
subclasses of the section abstract role (which frustratingly does not
denote a landmark, even though the section *tag* is). Should the expected
behavior then be that anything that is a subclass of the section abstract
role should have its label surfaced? If so, should it always do it when
the virtual cursor or equivalent enters the section, or only when the user
first sets focus to an element in the list, or both? Is there any place in
any W3C standard that describes what should be expected in that regard, or
is it just left up to however the assistive technology vendor wants to
present things? That seems suboptimal from the perspective of a developer
trying to decide whether and how to label things.
Best,
Rob
On Thu, Jul 19, 2018 at 6:55 AM Steve Faulkner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> some tests I did yesterday may be of interest
> https://s.codepen.io/stevef/debug/BPzMML
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> Current Standards Work @W3C
> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;
>
> On 19 July 2018 at 11:46, Birkir R. Gunnarsson <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
> > I added aria-label to ul elements, with and without tabindex="-1".
> > IE11 on Windows 10 announced the aria-label value on both.
> >
> >
> > On 7/19/18, Mallory < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > UL's already have a "list" role by default, but having a role isn't
> > enough a
> > > lot of the time, especially for IE.
> > > https://developer.paciellogroup.com/blog/2017/
> > 07/short-note-on-aria-label-aria-labelledby-and-aria-describedby/
> > >
> > > It mentions IE specifically, where Microsoft has a thing in their API
> > where
> > > they look for either certain roles OR a tabindex to decide whether an
> > object
> > > is "accessible" and therefore can have accessibility thingies in it
> like
> > > aria-foo.
> > >
> > > cheers,
> > > Mallory
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jul 18, 2018, at 10:29 AM, Mohith BP wrote:
> > >> Do you have provided any valid role for <ul>?
> > >>
> > >> On 7/18/18, Kakarla Meharoon < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > >> > hi everyone
> > >> >
> > >> > In IE browser aria-label is not read out by the JAWS and aria-label
> is
> > >> > present on the UL element
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > *Thanks*
> > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >
> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
--
*Rob Fentress*
*Web Accessibility Solutions Designer*
Accessible Technologies at Virginia Tech
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