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From: Haim Roman
Date: Mon, Oct 08 2018 12:32AM
Subject: Before or after the form?
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On a login page, is it normally better to put the auxiliary links
(contact, FAQ) before or after the login form?
Thanks

From: Wolfgang Berndorfer
Date: Mon, Oct 08 2018 1:51PM
Subject: Re: Before or after the form?
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First:
Just to understand the context: I can only think of two possible FAQs in
log-in forms which are about:
1. How can I creat a new account?
2. How can I get my forgotten password again?
If there are no more FAQs, I wouldn't interlace them in a FAQ-Link. Just two
links AFTER the form ("Get Account" and "Password forgotten?") would
probably fit for UX.
Second:
In a PURE log-in page, the autofocus-attribute might be functionally
permitted.
Whereever autofocus is used, relevant infos and features concerning the form
should be after the form, so that screen reader users encounter them by
common downwards prooceding.

Wolfgang

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] Im Auftrag
von Haim Roman
Gesendet: Montag, 08. Oktober 2018 08:32
An: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Betreff: [WebAIM] Before or after the form?

On a login page, is it normally better to put the auxiliary links
(contact, FAQ) before or after the login form?
Thanks

From: Haim Roman
Date: Tue, Oct 09 2018 1:30AM
Subject: Re: Before or after the form?
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks, Wolfgang.


1. Our FAQ contains more than you wrote. That's a given I can't change.
2. Your last paragraph does answer my question.
3. The focus is done by JS focus() method rather than CSS. Don't know
why yet. Since it's called when the page is loaded, I'm hoping that won't
hurt accessibility.

Howard (Haim) Roman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman



On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 10:51 PM Wolfgang Berndorfer <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> First:
> Just to understand the context: I can only think of two possible FAQs in
> log-in forms which are about:
> 1. How can I creat a new account?
> 2. How can I get my forgotten password again?
> If there are no more FAQs, I wouldn't interlace them in a FAQ-Link. Just
> two
> links AFTER the form ("Get Account" and "Password forgotten?") would
> probably fit for UX.
> Second:
> In a PURE log-in page, the autofocus-attribute might be functionally
> permitted.
> Whereever autofocus is used, relevant infos and features concerning the
> form
> should be after the form, so that screen reader users encounter them by
> common downwards prooceding.
>
> Wolfgang
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] Im Auftrag
> von Haim Roman
> Gesendet: Montag, 08. Oktober 2018 08:32
> An: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Betreff: [WebAIM] Before or after the form?
>
> On a login page, is it normally better to put the auxiliary links
> (contact, FAQ) before or after the login form?
> Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > >

From: Wolfgang Berndorfer
Date: Tue, Oct 09 2018 3:51AM
Subject: Re: Before or after the form?
← Previous message | Next message →

I know the autofocus-attribute as part of HTML and not CSS.

It shouldn't hurt accessibility as long as:
- Automatic focus seems helpful and permitted like in a pure log-in or search page.
- Relevant infos and features concerning the form and its elements follow the form elements (in the DOM) OR are referenced for screen readers e.g. via aria-describedby or aria-errormessage.
- AT supports HTML autofocus and the ARIA attributes used (e.g. errormessage is badly supported as discussed a few weeks ago here).

But perhaps CSS-acrobats can also design the appearance of an input-element with an autofocus-attribute via selectors.


-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] Im Auftrag von Haim Roman
Gesendet: Dienstag, 09. Oktober 2018 09:30
An: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Betreff: Re: [WebAIM] Before or after the form?

Thanks, Wolfgang.


1. Our FAQ contains more than you wrote. That's a given I can't change.
2. Your last paragraph does answer my question.
3. The focus is done by JS focus() method rather than CSS. Don't know
why yet. Since it's called when the page is loaded, I'm hoping that won't
hurt accessibility.

Howard (Haim) Roman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman



On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 10:51 PM Wolfgang Berndorfer <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> First:
> Just to understand the context: I can only think of two possible FAQs in
> log-in forms which are about:
> 1. How can I creat a new account?
> 2. How can I get my forgotten password again?
> If there are no more FAQs, I wouldn't interlace them in a FAQ-Link. Just
> two
> links AFTER the form ("Get Account" and "Password forgotten?") would
> probably fit for UX.
> Second:
> In a PURE log-in page, the autofocus-attribute might be functionally
> permitted.
> Whereever autofocus is used, relevant infos and features concerning the
> form
> should be after the form, so that screen reader users encounter them by
> common downwards prooceding.
>
> Wolfgang
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] Im Auftrag
> von Haim Roman
> Gesendet: Montag, 08. Oktober 2018 08:32
> An: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Betreff: [WebAIM] Before or after the form?
>
> On a login page, is it normally better to put the auxiliary links
> (contact, FAQ) before or after the login form?
> Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > >

From: Isabel Holdsworth
Date: Tue, Oct 09 2018 4:55AM
Subject: Re: Before or after the form?
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Haim,

Are these sitewide links? If so I would put them in the same place
where they'll be across the site. If they are footer links, put them
in the footer of the login page. If they are top navigation, put them
there.

If your login page contains much other information, I would not use
autofocus because it might cause screenreader users to miss some
important information.

Cheers, Isabel

On 09/10/2018, Wolfgang Berndorfer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I know the autofocus-attribute as part of HTML and not CSS.
>
> It shouldn't hurt accessibility as long as:
> - Automatic focus seems helpful and permitted like in a pure log-in or
> search page.
> - Relevant infos and features concerning the form and its elements follow
> the form elements (in the DOM) OR are referenced for screen readers e.g. via
> aria-describedby or aria-errormessage.
> - AT supports HTML autofocus and the ARIA attributes used (e.g. errormessage
> is badly supported as discussed a few weeks ago here).
>
> But perhaps CSS-acrobats can also design the appearance of an input-element
> with an autofocus-attribute via selectors.
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] Im Auftrag
> von Haim Roman
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 09. Oktober 2018 09:30
> An: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Betreff: Re: [WebAIM] Before or after the form?
>
> Thanks, Wolfgang.
>
>
> 1. Our FAQ contains more than you wrote. That's a given I can't change.
> 2. Your last paragraph does answer my question.
> 3. The focus is done by JS focus() method rather than CSS. Don't know
> why yet. Since it's called when the page is loaded, I'm hoping that
> won't
> hurt accessibility.
>
> > Howard (Haim) Roman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
> LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 10:51 PM Wolfgang Berndorfer <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> First:
>> Just to understand the context: I can only think of two possible FAQs in
>> log-in forms which are about:
>> 1. How can I creat a new account?
>> 2. How can I get my forgotten password again?
>> If there are no more FAQs, I wouldn't interlace them in a FAQ-Link. Just
>> two
>> links AFTER the form ("Get Account" and "Password forgotten?") would
>> probably fit for UX.
>> Second:
>> In a PURE log-in page, the autofocus-attribute might be functionally
>> permitted.
>> Whereever autofocus is used, relevant infos and features concerning the
>> form
>> should be after the form, so that screen reader users encounter them by
>> common downwards prooceding.
>>
>> Wolfgang
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> Von: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] Im Auftrag
>> von Haim Roman
>> Gesendet: Montag, 08. Oktober 2018 08:32
>> An: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> Betreff: [WebAIM] Before or after the form?
>>
>> On a login page, is it normally better to put the auxiliary links
>> (contact, FAQ) before or after the login form?
>> Thanks
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >
> > > > >

From: Haim Roman
Date: Tue, Oct 09 2018 6:00AM
Subject: Re: Before or after the form?
← Previous message | No next message

Thanks, Isabel. I'll keep these suggestions in mind.
Howard (Haim) Roman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים רומן
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman



On Tue, Oct 9, 2018 at 1:55 PM Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Hi Haim,
>
> Are these sitewide links? If so I would put them in the same place
> where they'll be across the site. If they are footer links, put them
> in the footer of the login page. If they are top navigation, put them
> there.
>
> If your login page contains much other information, I would not use
> autofocus because it might cause screenreader users to miss some
> important information.
>
> Cheers, Isabel
>
> On 09/10/2018, Wolfgang Berndorfer < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
> > I know the autofocus-attribute as part of HTML and not CSS.
> >
> > It shouldn't hurt accessibility as long as:
> > - Automatic focus seems helpful and permitted like in a pure log-in or
> > search page.
> > - Relevant infos and features concerning the form and its elements
> follow
> > the form elements (in the DOM) OR are referenced for screen readers e.g.
> via
> > aria-describedby or aria-errormessage.
> > - AT supports HTML autofocus and the ARIA attributes used (e.g.
> errormessage
> > is badly supported as discussed a few weeks ago here).
> >
> > But perhaps CSS-acrobats can also design the appearance of an
> input-element
> > with an autofocus-attribute via selectors.
> >
> >
> > -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] Im
> Auftrag
> > von Haim Roman
> > Gesendet: Dienstag, 09. Oktober 2018 09:30
> > An: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > Betreff: Re: [WebAIM] Before or after the form?
> >
> > Thanks, Wolfgang.
> >
> >
> > 1. Our FAQ contains more than you wrote. That's a given I can't
> change.
> > 2. Your last paragraph does answer my question.
> > 3. The focus is done by JS focus() method rather than CSS. Don't know
> > why yet. Since it's called when the page is loaded, I'm hoping that
> > won't
> > hurt accessibility.
> >
> > > > Howard (Haim) Roman -- = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = -- 052-8-592-599 -- חיים
> רומן
> > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/haimroman
> >
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Oct 8, 2018 at 10:51 PM Wolfgang Berndorfer <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> >> First:
> >> Just to understand the context: I can only think of two possible FAQs in
> >> log-in forms which are about:
> >> 1. How can I creat a new account?
> >> 2. How can I get my forgotten password again?
> >> If there are no more FAQs, I wouldn't interlace them in a FAQ-Link. Just
> >> two
> >> links AFTER the form ("Get Account" and "Password forgotten?") would
> >> probably fit for UX.
> >> Second:
> >> In a PURE log-in page, the autofocus-attribute might be functionally
> >> permitted.
> >> Whereever autofocus is used, relevant infos and features concerning the
> >> form
> >> should be after the form, so that screen reader users encounter them by
> >> common downwards prooceding.
> >>
> >> Wolfgang
> >>
> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> >> Von: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] Im
> Auftrag
> >> von Haim Roman
> >> Gesendet: Montag, 08. Oktober 2018 08:32
> >> An: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >> Betreff: [WebAIM] Before or after the form?
> >>
> >> On a login page, is it normally better to put the auxiliary links
> >> (contact, FAQ) before or after the login form?
> >> Thanks
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >