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Thread: Iframes: minimum spec
Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)
From: Isabel Holdsworth
Date: Wed, May 29 2019 3:48AM
Subject: Iframes: minimum spec
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Hi all,
We're required to deliver some of our content within an iframe - this
is unfortunately not negotiable.
The iframe has a title attribute, and its document has a <title> tag
and an h1 heading that all have the same (sometimes long) text, and
it's very laborious for screenreader users to keep listening to.
Younger users also find it very confusing.
If the iframe didn't have a title attribute, or if its document didn't
have a <title> attribute, would it fail WCAG? The content delivered
inside the iframe is never displayed as a stand-alone page.
Thanks as always, Isabel
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, May 29 2019 7:31AM
Subject: Re: Iframes: minimum spec
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You could put role="presentation" on the <iframe> element (to
basically hide it from the user). If the user is not supposed to
perceive the iframe as a section of content that is separate from the
page this is probably the best strategy. You should remove the title
attribute from the <iframe> element if you do this, probably also the
<title> element as well. The heading is good enough if the user is not
supposed to perceive the iframe as a separate section.
On 5/29/19, Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> We're required to deliver some of our content within an iframe - this
> is unfortunately not negotiable.
>
> The iframe has a title attribute, and its document has a <title> tag
> and an h1 heading that all have the same (sometimes long) text, and
> it's very laborious for screenreader users to keep listening to.
> Younger users also find it very confusing.
>
> If the iframe didn't have a title attribute, or if its document didn't
> have a <title> attribute, would it fail WCAG? The content delivered
> inside the iframe is never displayed as a stand-alone page.
>
> Thanks as always, Isabel
> > > > >
--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
From: Isabel Holdsworth
Date: Wed, May 29 2019 8:54AM
Subject: Re: Iframes: minimum spec
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Hi Birkir,
Great suggestion. I tried this one myself a while back but it didn't
work. The iframe was still exposed to JAWS, possibly due to security
considerations.
Thanks, Isabel
On 29/05/2019, Birkir R. Gunnarsson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> You could put role="presentation" on the <iframe> element (to
> basically hide it from the user). If the user is not supposed to
> perceive the iframe as a section of content that is separate from the
> page this is probably the best strategy. You should remove the title
> attribute from the <iframe> element if you do this, probably also the
> <title> element as well. The heading is good enough if the user is not
> supposed to perceive the iframe as a separate section.
>
>
>
> On 5/29/19, Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> We're required to deliver some of our content within an iframe - this
>> is unfortunately not negotiable.
>>
>> The iframe has a title attribute, and its document has a <title> tag
>> and an h1 heading that all have the same (sometimes long) text, and
>> it's very laborious for screenreader users to keep listening to.
>> Younger users also find it very confusing.
>>
>> If the iframe didn't have a title attribute, or if its document didn't
>> have a <title> attribute, would it fail WCAG? The content delivered
>> inside the iframe is never displayed as a stand-alone page.
>>
>> Thanks as always, Isabel
>> >> >> >> >>
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > >
From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, May 29 2019 9:14AM
Subject: Re: Iframes: minimum spec
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Basd on testing I did some years ago, Jaws takes its accessible name
from the <title> element inside the iframe, while NVDA takes its
accessible name from the title attribute of the <iframe> element.
What happens if you put role="presentation" on the <iframe> and also
remove the <title> attribute from inside it?
On 5/29/19, Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi Birkir,
>
> Great suggestion. I tried this one myself a while back but it didn't
> work. The iframe was still exposed to JAWS, possibly due to security
> considerations.
>
> Thanks, Isabel
>
> On 29/05/2019, Birkir R. Gunnarsson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> You could put role="presentation" on the <iframe> element (to
>> basically hide it from the user). If the user is not supposed to
>> perceive the iframe as a section of content that is separate from the
>> page this is probably the best strategy. You should remove the title
>> attribute from the <iframe> element if you do this, probably also the
>> <title> element as well. The heading is good enough if the user is not
>> supposed to perceive the iframe as a separate section.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/29/19, Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> We're required to deliver some of our content within an iframe - this
>>> is unfortunately not negotiable.
>>>
>>> The iframe has a title attribute, and its document has a <title> tag
>>> and an h1 heading that all have the same (sometimes long) text, and
>>> it's very laborious for screenreader users to keep listening to.
>>> Younger users also find it very confusing.
>>>
>>> If the iframe didn't have a title attribute, or if its document didn't
>>> have a <title> attribute, would it fail WCAG? The content delivered
>>> inside the iframe is never displayed as a stand-alone page.
>>>
>>> Thanks as always, Isabel
>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >
--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
From: Isabel Holdsworth
Date: Thu, May 30 2019 4:19AM
Subject: Re: Iframes: minimum spec
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Thanks so much Birkir. Your pointers have completely resolved the
issue and enabled us to offer users a much simpler to use and more
enjoyable experience.
On 29/05/2019, Birkir R. Gunnarsson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Basd on testing I did some years ago, Jaws takes its accessible name
> from the <title> element inside the iframe, while NVDA takes its
> accessible name from the title attribute of the <iframe> element.
> What happens if you put role="presentation" on the <iframe> and also
> remove the <title> attribute from inside it?
>
>
> On 5/29/19, Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Hi Birkir,
>>
>> Great suggestion. I tried this one myself a while back but it didn't
>> work. The iframe was still exposed to JAWS, possibly due to security
>> considerations.
>>
>> Thanks, Isabel
>>
>> On 29/05/2019, Birkir R. Gunnarsson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>> You could put role="presentation" on the <iframe> element (to
>>> basically hide it from the user). If the user is not supposed to
>>> perceive the iframe as a section of content that is separate from the
>>> page this is probably the best strategy. You should remove the title
>>> attribute from the <iframe> element if you do this, probably also the
>>> <title> element as well. The heading is good enough if the user is not
>>> supposed to perceive the iframe as a separate section.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/29/19, Isabel Holdsworth < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> We're required to deliver some of our content within an iframe - this
>>>> is unfortunately not negotiable.
>>>>
>>>> The iframe has a title attribute, and its document has a <title> tag
>>>> and an h1 heading that all have the same (sometimes long) text, and
>>>> it's very laborious for screenreader users to keep listening to.
>>>> Younger users also find it very confusing.
>>>>
>>>> If the iframe didn't have a title attribute, or if its document didn't
>>>> have a <title> attribute, would it fail WCAG? The content delivered
>>>> inside the iframe is never displayed as a stand-alone page.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks as always, Isabel
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > > >
From: Mallory
Date: Sat, Jun 01 2019 2:27AM
Subject: Re: Iframes: minimum spec
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Also: some browsers make the iframe a Tab stop, so if you don't want
an invisible Tab stop, adding tabindex="-1" at least stops Chrome from
Tabbing to it.
Although I've only tested this with iframes with nothing inside that the
client needs-- not sure if this would cause issue with iframes people
need to enter into and interact with.
cheers,
Mallory
From: Isabel Holdsworth
Date: Mon, Jun 03 2019 2:23AM
Subject: Re: Iframes: minimum spec
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Thanks Mallory, I had forgotten about the tab stop.
On 01/06/2019, Mallory < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Also: some browsers make the iframe a Tab stop, so if you don't want
> an invisible Tab stop, adding tabindex="-1" at least stops Chrome from
> Tabbing to it.
> Although I've only tested this with iframes with nothing inside that the
> client needs-- not sure if this would cause issue with iframes people
> need to enter into and interact with.
>
> cheers,
> Mallory
> > > > >