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From: Radhika Takyar
Date: Mon, Sep 21 2020 10:41AM
Subject: Alt text for images
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Happy Monday!

Just wanted to check on how does big companies who have huge data assets/ images with text handle Alt text for images? Any thoughts ?

Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Radhika

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Mon, Sep 21 2020 12:08PM
Subject: Re: Alt text for images
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Hey Radhika,

If you are using WordPress to handle the huge data assets you can use
the "attachment details" window in the Media Library to add meta data to
each asset.

The "description" field lets you add all kinds of information that will
not show up, either visibly or audibly. It's a very good spot to put the
information that will help you find the asset again. So, for example,
text like "AGM 2019" and "Annual Report 2020". Or, really, anything that
will make likely search terms.

I think alt text needs to be added one image at a time by a human. The
AI alt text I've seen, so far, is not  good enough to provide a real
alternative.

Add the alt to the attachment details in the media library. You'll have
a chance to change it when you add the image to a page. (Important note
- changing the alt text in the media library will have NO impact on the
alt in a page once the image is up there.)

I hope that helps,

--
Sandy
sandyfeldman.com

On 2020-09-21 12:41 p.m., Radhika Takyar wrote:
> Happy Monday!
>
> Just wanted to check on how does big companies who have huge data assets/ images with text handle Alt text for images? Any thoughts ?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Regards,
> Radhika
>
> > > >

From: Jeremy Echols
Date: Mon, Sep 21 2020 4:51PM
Subject: Re: Alt text for images
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It's worth noting that many CMSes let you reuse the same image in different contexts, but they also reuse the alt attribute. We run Drupal for pretty a huge number of our pages, and this is a constant problem. A general-purpose "stock"-like photo of a student can be used for so many purposes, and when the CMS tries to force a single alt text on you, it becomes a huge pain.

Hopefully large companies with hundreds of thousands of images have the staffing to describe those images in context, every time they're used. If not, it may be best to make sure the copy describes whatever the image is there for, and just give the images a null alt attribute (alt="").

From: Philip Kiff
Date: Mon, Sep 21 2020 5:40PM
Subject: Re: Alt text for images
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On 2020-09-21 18:51, Jeremy Echols wrote:
> It's worth noting that many CMSes let you reuse the same image in different contexts, but they also reuse the alt attribute. We run Drupal for pretty a huge number of our pages, and this is a constant problem. A general-purpose "stock"-like photo of a student can be used for so many purposes, and when the CMS tries to force a single alt text on you, it becomes a huge pain.

Your note about problems with Drupal tweaked my memory and curiosity.

I think I recall reading some lengthy discussions years ago about how
Drupal would handle the issue of assigning different alternative text
attributes to the same image in different contexts, and I thought that
the community had come up with solutions for this? This is way back when
there were multiple, significantly different versions of the media
library module for Drupal 7.x floating around.

I just assumed that current versions of Drupal (8.x and 9.x) would have
something built in that dealt with this?

This page about embedding media with CK Editor, seems to allow a default
alternative text to be passed on if configured to do so, but then allows
the CK Editor to override it as desired:
https://www.drupal.org/docs/core-modules-and-themes/core-modules/media-library-module/embedding-media-with-ckeditor

Phil.

Philip Kiff
D4K Communications

From: Sandy Feldman
Date: Mon, Sep 21 2020 7:42PM
Subject: Re: Alt text for images
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An amendment to that earlier email - the "description field" *usually
*won't show up anywhere else. It turns out that if you have the
WordPress jetpack plugin installed and use the gallery the descriptions
will show up there. So - check!

Sandy


On 2020-09-21 6:51 p.m., Jeremy Echols wrote:
> It's worth noting that many CMSes let you reuse the same image in different contexts, but they also reuse the alt attribute. We run Drupal for pretty a huge number of our pages, and this is a constant problem. A general-purpose "stock"-like photo of a student can be used for so many purposes, and when the CMS tries to force a single alt text on you, it becomes a huge pain.
>
> Hopefully large companies with hundreds of thousands of images have the staffing to describe those images in context, every time they're used. If not, it may be best to make sure the copy describes whatever the image is there for, and just give the images a null alt attribute (alt="").
>
>

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Tue, Sep 22 2020 12:33AM
Subject: Re: Alt text for images
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On 21/09/2020 17:41, Radhika Takyar wrote:
> Happy Monday!
>
> Just wanted to check on how does big companies who have huge data assets/ images with text handle Alt text for images? Any thoughts ?

There's been a few answers focusing on the technical side (basically,
the only good solution is, unfortunately, a manual process of having
actual humans go through all images and adding relevant alternative text
in the behind-the-scenes admin interface).

Considering the potentially very large effort, from a
logistical/organisational point of view the process I'd suggest is the
same as any other similar large retrofitting activity: try to make a
list/inventory of your top visited/important pages, and concentrate the
initial effort on those / on images used there. After that, methodically
work your way through the rest in decreasing order of importance.

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

https://www.splintered.co.uk/ | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
https://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | https://www.deviantart.com/redux
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
--
Inclusive Design 24 (#id24) https://inclusivedesign24.org

From: Jeremy Echols
Date: Tue, Sep 22 2020 7:43AM
Subject: Re: Alt text for images
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Valid point – we're still transitioning from Drupal 7, and I've only recently inherited the setup. It could be that there are lots of trivial ways to deal with this that I have no idea exist. My predecessor was a pretty smart guy, and seemed to think it was very difficult to work around, but that could also be due to custom modules *his* predecessor set up.

So a better statement might be, "be aware that some CMSes may make reuse of images in different contexts a little bit difficult depending on the setup."

Not really a powerful statement at that point, though, heh.

From: Philip Kiff < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 16:40
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Cc: Jeremy Echols < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Alt text for images

On 2020-09-21 18:51, Jeremy Echols wrote:

It's worth noting that many CMSes let you reuse the same image in different contexts, but they also reuse the alt attribute. We run Drupal for pretty a huge number of our pages, and this is a constant problem. A general-purpose "stock"-like photo of a student can be used for so many purposes, and when the CMS tries to force a single alt text on you, it becomes a huge pain.

Your note about problems with Drupal tweaked my memory and curiosity.

I think I recall reading some lengthy discussions years ago about how Drupal would handle the issue of assigning different alternative text attributes to the same image in different contexts, and I thought that the community had come up with solutions for this? This is way back when there were multiple, significantly different versions of the media library module for Drupal 7.x floating around.

I just assumed that current versions of Drupal (8.x and 9.x) would have something built in that dealt with this?

This page about embedding media with CK Editor, seems to allow a default alternative text to be passed on if configured to do so, but then allows the CK Editor to override it as desired:
https://www.drupal.org/docs/core-modules-and-themes/core-modules/media-library-module/embedding-media-with-ckeditor<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.drupal.org/docs/core-modules-and-themes/core-modules/media-library-module/embedding-media-with-ckeditor__;!!C5qS4YX3!XsRP_-cK6qlUhKh-W51A3ah9FqTtdd7xCtIAOe66Ie7k0_cvr-sOIFFPikXZ5BpTCw$>

Phil.

Philip Kiff
D4K Communications

From: Mallory
Date: Wed, Sep 23 2020 12:07PM
Subject: Re: Alt text for images
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For WordPress at least, I didn't see anyone mentioning coyote. Don't google it (too many things called coyote), but ask Sina Bahram about it.

https://mw18.mwconf.org/paper/using-coyote-to-describe-the-world/

On Tue, Sep 22, 2020, at 3:43 PM, Jeremy Echols wrote:
> Valid point – we're still transitioning from Drupal 7, and I've only
> recently inherited the setup. It could be that there are lots of
> trivial ways to deal with this that I have no idea exist. My
> predecessor was a pretty smart guy, and seemed to think it was very
> difficult to work around, but that could also be due to custom modules
> *his* predecessor set up.
>
> So a better statement might be, "be aware that some CMSes may make
> reuse of images in different contexts a little bit difficult depending
> on the setup."
>
> Not really a powerful statement at that point, though, heh.
>
> From: Philip Kiff < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2020 16:40
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Cc: Jeremy Echols < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Alt text for images
>
> On 2020-09-21 18:51, Jeremy Echols wrote:
>
> It's worth noting that many CMSes let you reuse the same image in
> different contexts, but they also reuse the alt attribute. We run
> Drupal for pretty a huge number of our pages, and this is a constant
> problem. A general-purpose "stock"-like photo of a student can be used
> for so many purposes, and when the CMS tries to force a single alt text
> on you, it becomes a huge pain.
>
> Your note about problems with Drupal tweaked my memory and curiosity.
>
> I think I recall reading some lengthy discussions years ago about how
> Drupal would handle the issue of assigning different alternative text
> attributes to the same image in different contexts, and I thought that
> the community had come up with solutions for this? This is way back
> when there were multiple, significantly different versions of the media
> library module for Drupal 7.x floating around.
>
> I just assumed that current versions of Drupal (8.x and 9.x) would have
> something built in that dealt with this?
>
> This page about embedding media with CK Editor, seems to allow a
> default alternative text to be passed on if configured to do so, but
> then allows the CK Editor to override it as desired:
> https://www.drupal.org/docs/core-modules-and-themes/core-modules/media-library-module/embedding-media-with-ckeditor<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.drupal.org/docs/core-modules-and-themes/core-modules/media-library-module/embedding-media-with-ckeditor__;!!C5qS4YX3!XsRP_-cK6qlUhKh-W51A3ah9FqTtdd7xCtIAOe66Ie7k0_cvr-sOIFFPikXZ5BpTCw$>
>
> Phil.
>
> Philip Kiff
> D4K Communications
> > > > >