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From: Michael Moore
Date: Jul 21, 2004 4:00PM
Subject: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
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I have an
interesting delima. I am working on a new web site for our organization
and am including a site map. My problem is this: Within major
sections of the site which provide resources relating to different programs that
we sponsor I have subnavigation menus that are very similar. A program may
include training so there is a link to training for example. This does not
pose a problem for the pages within the section. However when those links
are listed within the site map there is an issue - several links that say
"training."

Bobby correctly
flagged this problem as a violation of WCAG 13.1.

A visitor using a
screen reader who visits the site map then uses the link list feature of their
browser will be confused by the duplicate named links. However, to add the
program name to all of the links relating to that program would likely be very
annoying as well.

Any suggestions from
this group?

Thanks,

Mike
Moore

From: Sandy Clark
Date: Jul 21, 2004 4:14PM
Subject: Re: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
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I tend to do this with the "training" link being visible
and the program name wrapped in a <;span
class="hidden">;<;/span>;. Unfortunately Jaws honors display:none so
that doesn't work
.hidden{width:1px;position:absolute;left:0;top:-100px;height:1px;overflow:hidden;}

<;a
href="">;Training <;span class="hidden">;for
Program<;/span>;<;/a>;

Sandra
Clark

From: mmoore [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Wednesday, July 21, 2004 6:00 PMTo: WebAIM
Discussion ListSubject: [WebAIM] Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG
13.1

I have an
interesting delima. I am working on a new web site for our organization
and am including a site map. My problem is this: Within major
sections of the site which provide resources relating to different programs that
we sponsor I have subnavigation menus that are very similar. A program may
include training so there is a link to training for example. This does not
pose a problem for the pages within the section. However when those links
are listed within the site map there is an issue - several links that say
"training."

Bobby correctly
flagged this problem as a violation of WCAG 13.1.

A visitor using a
screen reader who visits the site map then uses the link list feature of their
browser will be confused by the duplicate named links. However, to add the
program name to all of the links relating to that program would likely be very
annoying as well.

Any suggestions from
this group?

Thanks,

Mike
Moore

From: Shane Anderson
Date: Jul 21, 2004 4:31PM
Subject: Re: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
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check out the new article on the Webaim website:
An Accessible Method of Hiding HTML Content

From: Michael Moore
Date: Jul 21, 2004 5:24PM
Subject: Re: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
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I have read the article that you mentioned but I am still concerned about
the annoyance factor of adding the program name to the links - each section
would need to have seven or eight links with the hidden program name. The
screen reader would read "program training" "program schedule" "program
participants" etc. Then again maybe I am just being overly cautious.

Mike

From: julian.rickards
Date: Jul 22, 2004 7:34AM
Subject: Re: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
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Don't
take this personally but I hate excessive markup for the purpose of applying
style such as a series of nested divs whose role is only to apply different
backgrounds to the same content. For example, the Onion Skinning technique
recently discussed at AListApart.com (<A
href="http://www.alistapart.com/articles/onionskin/">http://www.alistapart.com/articles/onionskin/)
and this code below smacks of the same thing. It is a maintenance nightmare and
difficult for others who work with you or after you to maintain. Why
not simply use the Title attribute to add more information?

Jules
-----------------------------------------------
Julian Rickards A/Digitial Publications Distribution
Coordinator Publication Services
Section, Ministry of Northern
Development and Mines, Vox:
705-670-5608 / Fax: 705-670-5960

From: Sandy Clark
Date: Jul 22, 2004 7:49AM
Subject: Re: Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1
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Not taken personally :)

My experience with the title attribute is that a)I
don't feel that the use of titles meet the WCAG guideline 13.1 of "link
text must be meaningful enough to make sense when read out of context" b)
not every screen reader is configured to read titles out of the box (or many of
them can be reconfigured to either read or
not read titles) so I can't be sure that it would even be read.

I don't think the maintenance of it is that difficult, mainly because most of what I would use it for is dynamically programmed
anyways. Its a technique, I've found effective, but if someone comes
up with a better way that will meet standards and work, then I'd love to hear
it.

Sandy Clark

From: julian.rickards
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004
9:33 AMTo: WebAIM Discussion ListSubject: Re: [WebAIM]
Site Map, Bobby, and WCAG 13.1

Don't
take this personally but I hate excessive markup for the purpose of applying
style such as a series of nested divs whose role is only to apply different
backgrounds to the same content. For example, the Onion Skinning technique
recently discussed at AListApart.com (<A
href="http://www.alistapart.com/articles/onionskin/">http://www.alistapart.com/articles/onionskin/)
and this code below smacks of the same thing. It is a maintenance nightmare and
difficult for others who work with you or after you to maintain. Why
not simply use the Title attribute to add more information?

Jules
-----------------------------------------------
Julian Rickards A/Digitial Publications Distribution
Coordinator Publication Services
Section, Ministry of Northern
Development and Mines, Vox:
705-670-5608 / Fax: 705-670-5960