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From: Laura Roberts
Date: Tue, Oct 04 2022 11:38AM
Subject: table of contents - leader dots best practice
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In a TOC, should leader dots be artifacted or not?
All the advice I've found has been contradictory on this.

--
Best regards,
Laura Roberts

From: Karen McCall
Date: Tue, Oct 04 2022 12:12PM
Subject: Re: table of contents - leader dots best practice
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Yes. They are visually there for people to follow along the line from the topic to the correct page number, but those of us who use screen readers or Text-to-Speech tools don't need to hear them.

Some screen readers will only read the first three dots so you know they are there, while others read all of them which can be annoying. Same with some Text-to-Speech tools.

Making them Artifacts supports visual access and access for those of us using adaptive technology.

Cheers, Karen

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Laura Roberts
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2022 1:38 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] table of contents - leader dots best practice

In a TOC, should leader dots be artifacted or not?
All the advice I've found has been contradictory on this.

--
Best regards,
Laura Roberts

From: Laura Roberts
Date: Tue, Oct 04 2022 2:34PM
Subject: Re: table of contents - leader dots best practice
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Thanks. I've been artifacting them, but was perusing the PDF/UA syntax
guide and it gave an example where the leader wasn't artifacted. I usually
only test with JAWS so thanks for letting me know how other screen readers
are reading leaders.

On Tue, Oct 4, 2022, 2:12 PM Karen McCall < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Yes. They are visually there for people to follow along the line from the
> topic to the correct page number, but those of us who use screen readers or
> Text-to-Speech tools don't need to hear them.
>
> Some screen readers will only read the first three dots so you know they
> are there, while others read all of them which can be annoying. Same with
> some Text-to-Speech tools.
>
> Making them Artifacts supports visual access and access for those of us
> using adaptive technology.
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Laura Roberts
> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2022 1:38 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] table of contents - leader dots best practice
>
> In a TOC, should leader dots be artifacted or not?
> All the advice I've found has been contradictory on this.
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Laura Roberts
> > > https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flist.webaim.org%2F&amp;data%7C01%7C%7C1ccee94021d8480e155308daa62f4756%7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa%7C1%7C0%7C638005019228832953%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C&amp;sdata°rZtVCVoOUOPM2pGdAbBwCb%2Fihq%2BaF8umJqf1JCfAo%3D&amp;reserved=0
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> > > > > >

From: chagnon@pubcom.com
Date: Tue, Oct 04 2022 2:45PM
Subject: Re: table of contents - leader dots best practice
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Quote: " All the advice I've found has been contradictory on this." /End Quote



That's because the accessibility standards, both WCAG and PDF/UA, don't fully address these page elements. Consequently, there's no guidance for assistive technologies to develop toward. Any guidance you find is someone's opinion — and maybe it's good advice, maybe it isn't, or it may or may not work for your particular TOC.



This topic is perfect timing as I design a template for a client's report.

Sometimes I think we should artifact the leader dots, but we have run into some TOCs that voice very incorrectly when the leaders are artifacted. Example:

A TOC item that has 15 leader dots between the title and page number. Looks like this:



Chapter 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51



If the leader dots are artifacted, it can be voiced as "Chapter 351" or "Chapter 3 (slight pause) 51."



If the leader dots aren't artifacted, it can be voiced as "Chapter 3 dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot 51."



Or "Chapter 3 dot dot dot 51."



Or "Chapter 3 15 dot 51."



Note that there is no law that prevents other designs of TOC items. In fact, the above format with a dot leader is traditional only in standard office documents, not in magazines and other highly-designed documents. I could design it with the page number first followed by a bullet and the title: "51 • Chapter 3". Or I could design something visually dynamic with large text, color, and graphics for a picture-centered TOC in a magazine.



As a sighted content creator, I don't have a clue how any of these variations will be voiced to my audience because every A T handles the TOC differently. Plus user settings and preferences can affect how a TOC item is voiced.



Ideally, I want all users to know that Chapter 3 starts on page 51, and have an active accessible hyperlink to it.



I think that we, the industry, need to work on better standards for this and also work with assistive technology manufacturers to get decent implementations in our various A T. If there was a way to identify or tag the 51 portion as the page number, then there wouldn't be so much confusion when the leaders are artifacted, or when the sequence is flipped with the page number first, followed by the title.



I guess I could have the word "Page" before each page number, but that gets visually clunky for sighted users.



Just my 2 cents' worth!



— — —

Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

— — —

PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing

consulting • training • development • design • sec. 508 services

Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes

— — —

Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text



-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of Laura Roberts
Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2022 1:38 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] table of contents - leader dots best practice



In a TOC, should leader dots be artifacted or not?

All the advice I've found has been contradictory on this.



--

Best regards,

Laura Roberts

From: Laura Roberts
Date: Tue, Oct 04 2022 4:58PM
Subject: Re: table of contents - leader dots best practice
← Previous message | No next message

I agree.

Just like I wish there was a way to mark something as an acronym so AT
doesn't read it as a word, or mark something as a roman numeral, and well,
the list goes on and on...

On Tue, Oct 4, 2022 at 4:45 PM < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Quote: " All the advice I've found has been contradictory on this." /End
> Quote
>
>
>
> That's because the accessibility standards, both WCAG and PDF/UA, don't
> fully address these page elements. Consequently, there's no guidance for
> assistive technologies to develop toward. Any guidance you find is
> someone's opinion — and maybe it's good advice, maybe it isn't, or it may
> or may not work for your particular TOC.
>
>
>
> This topic is perfect timing as I design a template for a client's report.
>
> Sometimes I think we should artifact the leader dots, but we have run into
> some TOCs that voice very incorrectly when the leaders are artifacted.
> Example:
>
> A TOC item that has 15 leader dots between the title and page number.
> Looks like this:
>
>
>
> Chapter 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 51
>
>
>
> If the leader dots are artifacted, it can be voiced as "Chapter 351" or
> "Chapter 3 (slight pause) 51."
>
>
>
> If the leader dots aren't artifacted, it can be voiced as "Chapter 3 dot
> dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot dot 51."
>
>
>
> Or "Chapter 3 dot dot dot 51."
>
>
>
> Or "Chapter 3 15 dot 51."
>
>
>
> Note that there is no law that prevents other designs of TOC items. In
> fact, the above format with a dot leader is traditional only in standard
> office documents, not in magazines and other highly-designed documents. I
> could design it with the page number first followed by a bullet and the
> title: "51 • Chapter 3". Or I could design something visually dynamic with
> large text, color, and graphics for a picture-centered TOC in a magazine.
>
>
>
> As a sighted content creator, I don't have a clue how any of these
> variations will be voiced to my audience because every A T handles the TOC
> differently. Plus user settings and preferences can affect how a TOC item
> is voiced.
>
>
>
> Ideally, I want all users to know that Chapter 3 starts on page 51, and
> have an active accessible hyperlink to it.
>
>
>
> I think that we, the industry, need to work on better standards for this
> and also work with assistive technology manufacturers to get decent
> implementations in our various A T. If there was a way to identify or tag
> the 51 portion as the page number, then there wouldn't be so much confusion
> when the leaders are artifacted, or when the sequence is flipped with the
> page number first, followed by the title.
>
>
>
> I guess I could have the word "Page" before each page number, but that
> gets visually clunky for sighted users.
>
>
>
> Just my 2 cents' worth!
>
>
>
> — — —
>
> Bevi Chagnon | Designer, Accessibility Technician | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
> — — —
>
> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
>
> consulting • training • development • design • sec. 508 services
>
> Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
>
> — — —
>
> Latest blog-newsletter – Simple Guide to Writing Alt-Text
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> Laura Roberts
> Sent: Tuesday, October 4, 2022 1:38 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] table of contents - leader dots best practice
>
>
>
> In a TOC, should leader dots be artifacted or not?
>
> All the advice I've found has been contradictory on this.
>
>
>
> --
>
> Best regards,
>
> Laura Roberts
>
>
>
> > > > >


--
Best regards,
Laura Roberts
413-588-8422