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From: ecrire@catherine-roy.net
Date: Fri, Feb 03 2023 11:08AM
Subject: Issues with Adobe accessibility checker converting PPTx to PDF
No previous message | Next message →

Hi all,
 


Hope your day is going well. I'm looking for some guidance regarding the
aforementioned subject. One of our profs is having issues with PDF
accessibility and specifically, the false positives when running the
checker in Adobe. I copy here some exchanges regarding the problem they
are having. But from what I understand, they are hoping to eliminate the
false positives from the report as it requires more checking and it is
already a lot of work. Is there anything more I can tell them, besides
what has already been provided? 
 A little background:

After the prof reached out to an internal IT resource, they got this
answer:



"I've taken a look and I'm wondering whether you should not check off
'Enable Accessibility and Reflow with tagged Adobe PDF box' as it may be
overwriting you accessibility pieces that you have done in pptx.
 


That would be my first go-to in determining why this is happening and to
simply NOT select that option (Enable Accessibility and Reflow with
tagged Adobe PDF) as that option may be adding proper tags for headings,
lists, hyperlinks, and other structural elements in the PDF document
when it was already there in the pptx."
 


The prof then replied (please see attached screenshots):



"I followed your suggestion: I saved the PPTX as a PDF with the Enable
Accessibility and Reflow with tagged Adobe PDF box unchecked. Below, I
provide excerpts (in the form of screenshots) of the Adobe accessibility
checker reports from when the box was unchecked and then from when the
box was checked. It seems unchecking the box does not resolve the
problem."
 


They then got this reply:



"The accessibility report in PDF is reading the textboxes that was
created in the PPTX format as figures. It is still good to check what
the reasoning is for PDF to be flagging these figures, but with a deeper
analysis after the reports, it is clear that alt text was maintained and
this was a false positive flag.

As you said, doing a review of the errors from the accessibility report
via text to speech to go through the flagged material may be beneficial
to see if there is something going on with these error flags. Some will
be an actual error where you will work on correcting and some will be
false errors."
 


And then they reached out to me to see if there was any way to resolve
this at the source. I'm not a PDF specialist, so I'm turning to the
community to see if there are any ideas about this. Please note the prof
is already using the Accessibility Checker in PPTx and have the
rudimentary knowledge to make their PPTx accessible using the MS
accessibility checker. I apologize if this email is a bit confusing or
if this is off-topic, but this is basically the only info I have. I
would appreciate feedback on this issue.

Thanks,
Catherine

From: Steve Green
Date: Fri, Feb 03 2023 11:23AM
Subject: Re: Issues with Adobe accessibility checker converting PPTx toPDF
← Previous message | Next message →

First I would make a couple of observations:

1. You can produce a highly accessible PDF from PowerPoint if you know what you are doing, but there are a lot of do's and don'ts. Very few people know what they are. Most of the guidance you can find is incomplete and/or incorrect.

2. It is very difficult to produce a highly accessible PDF from PowerPoint if it has already been created without following all the necessary guidelines. The built-in accessibility checker is virtually useless in this regard - it only addresses a small proportion of the things that need to be done.

It is difficult to interpret the discussion between your colleagues without seeing the PowerPoint document. I would be happy to take a look if you want to send it to me.

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: 03 February 2023 18:09
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] Issues with Adobe accessibility checker converting PPTx to PDF

Hi all,



Hope your day is going well. I'm looking for some guidance regarding the aforementioned subject. One of our profs is having issues with PDF accessibility and specifically, the false positives when running the checker in Adobe. I copy here some exchanges regarding the problem they are having. But from what I understand, they are hoping to eliminate the false positives from the report as it requires more checking and it is already a lot of work. Is there anything more I can tell them, besides what has already been provided?
A little background:

After the prof reached out to an internal IT resource, they got this
answer:



"I've taken a look and I'm wondering whether you should not check off
'Enable Accessibility and Reflow with tagged Adobe PDF box' as it may be
overwriting you accessibility pieces that you have done in pptx.



That would be my first go-to in determining why this is happening and to
simply NOT select that option (Enable Accessibility and Reflow with
tagged Adobe PDF) as that option may be adding proper tags for headings,
lists, hyperlinks, and other structural elements in the PDF document
when it was already there in the pptx."



The prof then replied (please see attached screenshots):



"I followed your suggestion: I saved the PPTX as a PDF with the Enable
Accessibility and Reflow with tagged Adobe PDF box unchecked. Below, I
provide excerpts (in the form of screenshots) of the Adobe accessibility
checker reports from when the box was unchecked and then from when the
box was checked. It seems unchecking the box does not resolve the
problem."



They then got this reply:



"The accessibility report in PDF is reading the textboxes that was
created in the PPTX format as figures. It is still good to check what
the reasoning is for PDF to be flagging these figures, but with a deeper
analysis after the reports, it is clear that alt text was maintained and
this was a false positive flag.

As you said, doing a review of the errors from the accessibility report
via text to speech to go through the flagged material may be beneficial
to see if there is something going on with these error flags. Some will
be an actual error where you will work on correcting and some will be
false errors."



And then they reached out to me to see if there was any way to resolve
this at the source. I'm not a PDF specialist, so I'm turning to the
community to see if there are any ideas about this. Please note the prof
is already using the Accessibility Checker in PPTx and have the
rudimentary knowledge to make their PPTx accessible using the MS
accessibility checker. I apologize if this email is a bit confusing or
if this is off-topic, but this is basically the only info I have. I
would appreciate feedback on this issue.

Thanks,
Catherine

From: Heather Mariger
Date: Fri, Feb 03 2023 11:37AM
Subject: Re: Issues with Adobe accessibility checker converting PPTx to PDF
← Previous message | Next message →

Greetings,

Is there an accurate list of the dos and don'ts out there? I would love to
get a copy.

Thanks,
H.

*Heather Mariger*
*Digital Accessibility Advocate*

*Pronouns: She/Her*

*Center for Academic Innovation*
*Chemeketa Community College*
*4000 Lancaster Drive NE - 9/126A*
*Salem, OR 97305*

503.589.7832

*****************
*Diversity is being invited to the party; inclusion is being asked to
dance. *
Verna Myers, author and speaker





On Fri, Feb 3, 2023 at 10:23 AM Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> First I would make a couple of observations:
>
> 1. You can produce a highly accessible PDF from PowerPoint if you know
> what you are doing, but there are a lot of do's and don'ts. Very few people
> know what they are. Most of the guidance you can find is incomplete and/or
> incorrect.
>
> 2. It is very difficult to produce a highly accessible PDF from PowerPoint
> if it has already been created without following all the necessary
> guidelines. The built-in accessibility checker is virtually useless in this
> regard - it only addresses a small proportion of the things that need to be
> done.
>
> It is difficult to interpret the discussion between your colleagues
> without seeing the PowerPoint document. I would be happy to take a look if
> you want to send it to me.
>
> Steve Green
> Managing Director
> Test Partners Ltd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Sent: 03 February 2023 18:09
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [WebAIM] Issues with Adobe accessibility checker converting PPTx
> to PDF
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Hope your day is going well. I'm looking for some guidance regarding the
> aforementioned subject. One of our profs is having issues with PDF
> accessibility and specifically, the false positives when running the
> checker in Adobe. I copy here some exchanges regarding the problem they are
> having. But from what I understand, they are hoping to eliminate the false
> positives from the report as it requires more checking and it is already a
> lot of work. Is there anything more I can tell them, besides what has
> already been provided?
> A little background:
>
> After the prof reached out to an internal IT resource, they got this
> answer:
>
>
>
> "I've taken a look and I'm wondering whether you should not check off
> 'Enable Accessibility and Reflow with tagged Adobe PDF box' as it may be
> overwriting you accessibility pieces that you have done in pptx.
>
>
>
> That would be my first go-to in determining why this is happening and to
> simply NOT select that option (Enable Accessibility and Reflow with
> tagged Adobe PDF) as that option may be adding proper tags for headings,
> lists, hyperlinks, and other structural elements in the PDF document
> when it was already there in the pptx."
>
>
>
> The prof then replied (please see attached screenshots):
>
>
>
> "I followed your suggestion: I saved the PPTX as a PDF with the Enable
> Accessibility and Reflow with tagged Adobe PDF box unchecked. Below, I
> provide excerpts (in the form of screenshots) of the Adobe accessibility
> checker reports from when the box was unchecked and then from when the
> box was checked. It seems unchecking the box does not resolve the
> problem."
>
>
>
> They then got this reply:
>
>
>
> "The accessibility report in PDF is reading the textboxes that was
> created in the PPTX format as figures. It is still good to check what
> the reasoning is for PDF to be flagging these figures, but with a deeper
> analysis after the reports, it is clear that alt text was maintained and
> this was a false positive flag.
>
> As you said, doing a review of the errors from the accessibility report
> via text to speech to go through the flagged material may be beneficial
> to see if there is something going on with these error flags. Some will
> be an actual error where you will work on correcting and some will be
> false errors."
>
>
>
> And then they reached out to me to see if there was any way to resolve
> this at the source. I'm not a PDF specialist, so I'm turning to the
> community to see if there are any ideas about this. Please note the prof
> is already using the Accessibility Checker in PPTx and have the
> rudimentary knowledge to make their PPTx accessible using the MS
> accessibility checker. I apologize if this email is a bit confusing or
> if this is off-topic, but this is basically the only info I have. I
> would appreciate feedback on this issue.
>
> Thanks,
> Catherine
> > > > >

From: Christine Hogenkamp
Date: Fri, Feb 03 2023 12:52PM
Subject: Re: Issues with Adobe accessibility checker converting PPTx to PDF
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Catherine,

My first thought when trying to remediate a Powerpoint file is to check
whether the slides content was arranged using the Slides Master for evoking
the combinations of text and images needed on each slide in the correct
format. People often instead use the text box tool or image box tool to
place new content on a slide and this can create problems for exporting to
PDF, since these free boxes are not considered part of the logical reading
order and may also lack some of the native formatting that ensures a
correctly tagged exported PDF.

Now you mentioned PPTx instead of PPT so if Powerpoint isn't being used but
instead Open Office or similar, you would have to find out which program is
being used and hopefully that application has its own documentation for
making an accessible slideshow. At minimum, I would expect the app also
uses something like Slides Master to ensure logical reading order and other
native tools to ensure proper tagged format in the exported PDF.

If they are using Powerpoint, WebAIM actually has a good tutorial about
accessible Powerpoint: https://webaim.org/techniques/powerpoint/

Goodluck trying to troubleshoot!

*x*
*Christine Hogenkamp (She, Her)*
Front-end Developer
ContextCreative.com <http://contextcreative.com/>;


> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Sent: 03 February 2023 18:09
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [WebAIM] Issues with Adobe accessibility checker converting PPTx
> to PDF
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Hope your day is going well. I'm looking for some guidance regarding the
> aforementioned subject. One of our profs is having issues with PDF
> accessibility and specifically, the false positives when running the
> checker in Adobe. I copy here some exchanges regarding the problem they are
> having. But from what I understand, they are hoping to eliminate the false
> positives from the report as it requires more checking and it is already a
> lot of work. Is there anything more I can tell them, besides what has
> already been provided?
> A little background:
>
> After the prof reached out to an internal IT resource, they got this
> answer:
>
>
>
> "I've taken a look and I'm wondering whether you should not check off
> 'Enable Accessibility and Reflow with tagged Adobe PDF box' as it may be
> overwriting you accessibility pieces that you have done in pptx.
>
>
>
> That would be my first go-to in determining why this is happening and to
> simply NOT select that option (Enable Accessibility and Reflow with
> tagged Adobe PDF) as that option may be adding proper tags for headings,
> lists, hyperlinks, and other structural elements in the PDF document
> when it was already there in the pptx."
>
>
>
> The prof then replied (please see attached screenshots):
>
>
>
> "I followed your suggestion: I saved the PPTX as a PDF with the Enable
> Accessibility and Reflow with tagged Adobe PDF box unchecked. Below, I
> provide excerpts (in the form of screenshots) of the Adobe accessibility
> checker reports from when the box was unchecked and then from when the
> box was checked. It seems unchecking the box does not resolve the
> problem."
>
>
>
> They then got this reply:
>
>
>
> "The accessibility report in PDF is reading the textboxes that was
> created in the PPTX format as figures. It is still good to check what
> the reasoning is for PDF to be flagging these figures, but with a deeper
> analysis after the reports, it is clear that alt text was maintained and
> this was a false positive flag.
>
> As you said, doing a review of the errors from the accessibility report
> via text to speech to go through the flagged material may be beneficial
> to see if there is something going on with these error flags. Some will
> be an actual error where you will work on correcting and some will be
> false errors."
>
>
>
> And then they reached out to me to see if there was any way to resolve
> this at the source. I'm not a PDF specialist, so I'm turning to the
> community to see if there are any ideas about this. Please note the prof
> is already using the Accessibility Checker in PPTx and have the
> rudimentary knowledge to make their PPTx accessible using the MS
> accessibility checker. I apologize if this email is a bit confusing or
> if this is off-topic, but this is basically the only info I have. I
> would appreciate feedback on this issue.
>
> Thanks,
> Catherine
>
>

From: Alan Zaitchik
Date: Fri, Feb 03 2023 2:05PM
Subject: Re: Issues with Adobe accessibility checker converting PPTx toPDF
← Previous message | Next message →

Also, FWIW, I’d check the PDF with a more credible a11y checker, such as PAC 2021, before dismissing anything as a false positive or negative. I’d not rely solely on Acrobat’s checker.

> On Feb 3, 2023, at 13:23, Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> First I would make a couple of observations:
>
> 1. You can produce a highly accessible PDF from PowerPoint if you know what you are doing, but there are a lot of do's and don'ts. Very few people know what they are. Most of the guidance you can find is incomplete and/or incorrect.
>
> 2. It is very difficult to produce a highly accessible PDF from PowerPoint if it has already been created without following all the necessary guidelines. The built-in accessibility checker is virtually useless in this regard - it only addresses a small proportion of the things that need to be done.
>
> It is difficult to interpret the discussion between your colleagues without seeing the PowerPoint document. I would be happy to take a look if you want to send it to me.
>
> Steve Green
> Managing Director
> Test Partners Ltd
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Sent: 03 February 2023 18:09
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: [WebAIM] Issues with Adobe accessibility checker converting PPTx to PDF
>
> Hi all,
>
>
>
> Hope your day is going well. I'm looking for some guidance regarding the aforementioned subject. One of our profs is having issues with PDF accessibility and specifically, the false positives when running the checker in Adobe. I copy here some exchanges regarding the problem they are having. But from what I understand, they are hoping to eliminate the false positives from the report as it requires more checking and it is already a lot of work. Is there anything more I can tell them, besides what has already been provided?
> A little background:
>
> After the prof reached out to an internal IT resource, they got this
> answer:
>
>
>
> "I've taken a look and I'm wondering whether you should not check off
> 'Enable Accessibility and Reflow with tagged Adobe PDF box' as it may be
> overwriting you accessibility pieces that you have done in pptx.
>
>
>
> That would be my first go-to in determining why this is happening and to
> simply NOT select that option (Enable Accessibility and Reflow with
> tagged Adobe PDF) as that option may be adding proper tags for headings,
> lists, hyperlinks, and other structural elements in the PDF document
> when it was already there in the pptx."
>
>
>
> The prof then replied (please see attached screenshots):
>
>
>
> "I followed your suggestion: I saved the PPTX as a PDF with the Enable
> Accessibility and Reflow with tagged Adobe PDF box unchecked. Below, I
> provide excerpts (in the form of screenshots) of the Adobe accessibility
> checker reports from when the box was unchecked and then from when the
> box was checked. It seems unchecking the box does not resolve the
> problem."
>
>
>
> They then got this reply:
>
>
>
> "The accessibility report in PDF is reading the textboxes that was
> created in the PPTX format as figures. It is still good to check what
> the reasoning is for PDF to be flagging these figures, but with a deeper
> analysis after the reports, it is clear that alt text was maintained and
> this was a false positive flag.
>
> As you said, doing a review of the errors from the accessibility report
> via text to speech to go through the flagged material may be beneficial
> to see if there is something going on with these error flags. Some will
> be an actual error where you will work on correcting and some will be
> false errors."
>
>
>
> And then they reached out to me to see if there was any way to resolve
> this at the source. I'm not a PDF specialist, so I'm turning to the
> community to see if there are any ideas about this. Please note the prof
> is already using the Accessibility Checker in PPTx and have the
> rudimentary knowledge to make their PPTx accessible using the MS
> accessibility checker. I apologize if this email is a bit confusing or
> if this is off-topic, but this is basically the only info I have. I
> would appreciate feedback on this issue.
>
> Thanks,
> Catherine

From: Laura Roberts
Date: Sat, Feb 04 2023 12:34PM
Subject: Re: Issues with Adobe accessibility checker converting PPTx to PDF
← Previous message | Next message →

The report doesn't contain false positives I usually see. It looks to me
like it hasn't been properly remediated. The reason I say this is the first
2 fails are common and easy to fix. The nested alt text fail is a common
one too. Did you use an accessible PDF specialist to remediate this?


On Fri, Feb 3, 2023, 1:08 PM < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> Hope your day is going well. I'm looking for some guidance regarding the
> aforementioned subject. One of our profs is having issues with PDF
> accessibility and specifically, the false positives when running the
> checker in Adobe. I copy here some exchanges regarding the problem they
> are having. But from what I understand, they are hoping to eliminate the
> false positives from the report as it requires more checking and it is
> already a lot of work. Is there anything more I can tell them, besides
> what has already been provided? A little background:
>
> After the prof reached out to an internal IT resource, they got this
> answer:
>
> "I've taken a look and I'm wondering whether you should not check off
> 'Enable Accessibility and Reflow with tagged Adobe PDF box' as it may be
> overwriting you accessibility pieces that you have done in pptx.
>
> That would be my first go-to in determining why this is happening and to
> simply NOT select that option (Enable Accessibility and Reflow with
> tagged Adobe PDF) as that option may be adding proper tags for headings,
> lists, hyperlinks, and other structural elements in the PDF document
> when it was already there in the pptx."
>
> The prof then replied (please see attached screenshots):
>
> "I followed your suggestion: I saved the PPTX as a PDF with the Enable
> Accessibility and Reflow with tagged Adobe PDF box unchecked. Below, I
> provide excerpts (in the form of screenshots) of the Adobe accessibility
> checker reports from when the box was unchecked and then from when the
> box was checked. It seems unchecking the box does not resolve the
> problem."
>
> They then got this reply:
>
> "The accessibility report in PDF is reading the textboxes that was
> created in the PPTX format as figures. It is still good to check what
> the reasoning is for PDF to be flagging these figures, but with a deeper
> analysis after the reports, it is clear that alt text was maintained and
> this was a false positive flag.
>
> As you said, doing a review of the errors from the accessibility report
> via text to speech to go through the flagged material may be beneficial
> to see if there is something going on with these error flags. Some will
> be an actual error where you will work on correcting and some will be
> false errors."
>
> And then they reached out to me to see if there was any way to resolve
> this at the source. I'm not a PDF specialist, so I'm turning to the
> community to see if there are any ideas about this. Please note the prof
> is already using the Accessibility Checker in PPTx and have the
> rudimentary knowledge to make their PPTx accessible using the MS
> accessibility checker. I apologize if this email is a bit confusing or
> if this is off-topic, but this is basically the only info I have. I
> would appreciate feedback on this issue.
>
> Thanks,
> Catherine> > > >

From: ecrire@catherine-roy.net
Date: Mon, Feb 06 2023 6:41PM
Subject: Re: Issues with Adobe accessibility checker converting PPTx to PDF
← Previous message | No next message

Hello all,

Just wanted to thank everyone who responded to my questions. It was all
very helpful.

Best,
Catherine


On 2023-02-04 14:34, Laura Roberts wrote:
> The report doesn't contain false positives I usually see. It looks to
> me
> like it hasn't been properly remediated. The reason I say this is the
> first
> 2 fails are common and easy to fix. The nested alt text fail is a
> common
> one too. Did you use an accessible PDF specialist to remediate this?
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2023, 1:08 PM < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Hope your day is going well. I'm looking for some guidance regarding
>> the
>> aforementioned subject. One of our profs is having issues with PDF
>> accessibility and specifically, the false positives when running the
>> checker in Adobe. I copy here some exchanges regarding the problem
>> they
>> are having. But from what I understand, they are hoping to eliminate
>> the
>> false positives from the report as it requires more checking and it is
>> already a lot of work. Is there anything more I can tell them, besides
>> what has already been provided? A little background:
>>
>> After the prof reached out to an internal IT resource, they got this
>> answer:
>>
>> "I've taken a look and I'm wondering whether you should not check off
>> 'Enable Accessibility and Reflow with tagged Adobe PDF box' as it may
>> be
>> overwriting you accessibility pieces that you have done in pptx.
>>
>> That would be my first go-to in determining why this is happening and
>> to
>> simply NOT select that option (Enable Accessibility and Reflow with
>> tagged Adobe PDF) as that option may be adding proper tags for
>> headings,
>> lists, hyperlinks, and other structural elements in the PDF document
>> when it was already there in the pptx."
>>
>> The prof then replied (please see attached screenshots):
>>
>> "I followed your suggestion: I saved the PPTX as a PDF with the Enable
>> Accessibility and Reflow with tagged Adobe PDF box unchecked. Below, I
>> provide excerpts (in the form of screenshots) of the Adobe
>> accessibility
>> checker reports from when the box was unchecked and then from when the
>> box was checked. It seems unchecking the box does not resolve the
>> problem."
>>
>> They then got this reply:
>>
>> "The accessibility report in PDF is reading the textboxes that was
>> created in the PPTX format as figures. It is still good to check what
>> the reasoning is for PDF to be flagging these figures, but with a
>> deeper
>> analysis after the reports, it is clear that alt text was maintained
>> and
>> this was a false positive flag.
>>
>> As you said, doing a review of the errors from the accessibility
>> report
>> via text to speech to go through the flagged material may be
>> beneficial
>> to see if there is something going on with these error flags. Some
>> will
>> be an actual error where you will work on correcting and some will be
>> false errors."
>>
>> And then they reached out to me to see if there was any way to resolve
>> this at the source. I'm not a PDF specialist, so I'm turning to the
>> community to see if there are any ideas about this. Please note the
>> prof
>> is already using the Accessibility Checker in PPTx and have the
>> rudimentary knowledge to make their PPTx accessible using the MS
>> accessibility checker. I apologize if this email is a bit confusing or
>> if this is off-topic, but this is basically the only info I have. I
>> would appreciate feedback on this issue.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Catherine>> >> >> >>
> > > >