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Thread: Section 508 - Skipping Repetetive Links
Number of posts in this thread: 6 (In chronological order)
From: Joel Sanda
Date: Fri, Oct 05 2001 3:54PM
Subject: Section 508 - Skipping Repetetive Links
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Hi all -
I emailed the Access Board with this question (but never received a
response) and am wondering what you all think.
If a site uses frames, that are otherwise compliant with Section 508
requirements, and one frame holds nothing but navigation, does that permit
sufficient skipping of repetitive navigation links?
There are several problems encountered with adding a simple hyperlink and
target that exists after the section of links. The first is that CSS
technique "display: none;" will not render content in JAWS for Windows
3.5/3.7. This means the link will be visible to sighted users. The second
problem is with dynamically created sites, which makes it difficult and very
time consuming to add the target link to the frame that is the most logical
one to jump to after skipping the links.
Finally, by not adding the skipping over links feature, and keeping all
navigation isolated in one frame, it's much easier to skip navigation with
Window-Eyes and JAWS. This technique also works in any user agent that
supports frames, and hence navigation by frame. If the frames are logically
named and have sufficient descriptions via the title attribute, this can
really speed up page navigation with links lists, as well - provided the
assistive technology supports them.
Thanks for any feedback!
Joel Sanda
Product Manager
Product Engineering & Technology
-------------------------------------------------------www.eCollege.com
eCollege
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From: Paul Bohman
Date: Fri, Oct 05 2001 6:00PM
Subject: Section 508 - Skipping Repetetive Links
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Frames have their own problems as far as usability and accessibility, but they can be accessible to most people if done properly (provide frame titles and names, don't over-use them, etc.). There are ways of skipping between frames in modern screen readers. Perhaps you are correct in thinking that this is a way of satisfying the Section 508 requirement of having a link to skip menu items. I suppose this is a matter of interpretation. If you are choosing to use frames just to satisfy this requirement, I would discourage doing so. If you have other reasons for using frames, then perhaps their use is justified.
As far as the display:none property goes, HPR 3.0 and JAWS 4.0 both read the content, even if it is hidden to the visual user (if anyone has had a different experience with either of these, tell me).
Paul Bohman
Technology Coordinator
WebAIM (Web Accessibility in Mind)
www.webaim.org
Utah State University
www.usu.edu
From: Scott Standifer
Date: Mon, Oct 08 2001 8:12AM
Subject: Re: Skipping Repetetive Links in Frames
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Hi Joel
I don't know if this helps, but you might take a look at how I
approached the issue of a navigation frame and duplicate text links at
our website www.rcep7.org. I basically made a stand-alone frames-free
site, with the navigation links at the bottom, then built the frames
version to access the frames-free pages as content. Navigating with the
buttons in the navigation frame keeps you in the frames mode. Navigating
with the text links at the bottom of the content pages lets you use
either the frames mode or the frames-free, low-graphics mode. That way I
get the effect of a duplicate text-only website and graphics heavy
website without dual maintenance. It did mean that I had to double up my
navigation links at the bottom, but I'm working on a Java solution to
that.
I didn't follow all of the issues of concern you described, so I don't
know how well this solves your problems, but it might help.
Note that, because my navigation links are at the bottom, instead of a
"skip navigation" link I put in an "end of content, navigation links
follow" message at the bottom of my pages for people using screen
readers. I also made sure that the first thing that loads in the frames
mode is always the link to the frames-free mode.
I'm working on starting a project to expand this "dual access" approach
in web design, and I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has tried
it.
Scott Standifer
Instructional Designer
Region 7 Rehabilitation Continuing Education Program
(RCEP7)
University of Missouri, Columbia
>
> Date: 5 Oct 2001 15:54:23 -0600
> From: Joel Sanda < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Section 508 - Skipping Repetitive Links
>
> Hi all -
>
> I emailed the Access Board with this question (but never received a
> response) and am wondering what you all think.
>
> If a site uses frames, that are otherwise compliant with Section 508
> requirements, and one frame holds nothing but navigation, does that permit
> sufficient skipping of repetitive navigation links?
[snip]
>
> Thanks for any feedback!
>
> Joel Sanda
> Product Manager
> Product Engineering & Technology
---
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From: Terence de Giere
Date: Tue, Oct 09 2001 7:52AM
Subject: Section 508 - Skipping Repetetive Links
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Joel
The Access Board rule for skipping navigation links was designed to help
users using screen readers and audio browsers to get quickly to the main
content of the page without having to cycle through navigation menus
typically found at the top and left of Web pages. Because non visual
browsing does not allow one to just see the content and visually skim
over the links the user must hunt for it when listening to a page or
using Braille. That means cycling through top and/or left menus on each
page until content is found.
This rule is for pages that have the navigation menus on the page with
the content. When navigation and content are on separate pages in a
frameset, the skip link is not really necessary. What is necessary for
frames is the title of the frames has to give the user information about
what material is in a particular frame. "Navigation" as a title for the
frame that has the navigation links is all that is needed, and "Content"
for the content frame. When a site is organized this way there is
nothing to skip over in the navigation frame since all it contains is
navigation.
The few users left that use browsers that do not support frames at all
will still not be able to navigate such a site since both the navigation
and content pages will be invisible to a frameless browser unless you
provide <NOFRAMES> content for the site that allows users to get to all
the navigation and content. The Access Board rules do not specify that
you must provide <NOFRAMES> material. They only specify that the frames
must be titled.
A frameset Web site appears more like a maze than a set of Web pages to
many kinds of special access technology. A text or audio browser that
supports frames does not present the frames simultaneously, but
serially. The main advantage of frames for visual browsing is lost when
one cannot see the pages. On opening the initial frameset page one might
experience "Link to a frame: navigation" and "Link to a frame: Content"
on a page. One then selects the navigation frame, finds the desired
link, activates it and gets a content page. To get back to the
navigation menu, the user must then go back to the navigation page. This
is not too complicated for a two window frameset, but if more windows
are used the process gets complicated and more difficult.
The recent HTML specifications have been eliminating frames:
HTML 4.0/4.01 Strict
XHTML 1.0 Strict
XHTML Basic
XHTML 1.1
Terence de Giere
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
========================From: Joel Sanda < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Section 508 - Skipping Repetitive Links
Hi all -
I emailed the Access Board with this question (but never received a
response) and am wondering what you all think.
If a site uses frames, that are otherwise compliant with Section 508
requirements, and one frame holds nothing but navigation, does that permit
sufficient skipping of repetitive navigation links?
[snip]
Thanks for any feedback!
Joel Sanda
Product Manager
Product Engineering & Technology
---
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
From: Holly Marie
Date: Tue, Oct 09 2001 9:37AM
Subject: Re: Section 508 - Skipping Repetetive Links
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In Addition to supplying "skip links" for pages with navigational
looking bars or areas at the top or left of content pages, I also supply
textual or regular text links at the bottoms of such pages. This may not
be desirable to visual designers but I think it is handy or can be for
some users.
Regarding invisible skip links:
I usually put these links into my pages as invisible.
I personally struggle with the issue of coding invisible skip content
links or having some sort of visible skip link, because they may be
important to be seen.
If you have a low vision user that can see, but with difficulty and does
use a combination of seeing a page and hearing the page while seeing it,
it may be easy to miss?
The other type of person this may really be difficult for is the motor
impaired user who may be tabbing through pages and navigational links
and miss a subtle clue that the cursor stopped at a blank looking area
is really a skip to content link.
So, While it is nice -- not to see the link -- it may be better to make
one visible in some way for those cases. As I have seen the "d" links
visible next to charts or tables or graphics for long descriptions.
holly
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From: Joel Sanda
Date: Wed, Oct 10 2001 3:08PM
Subject: RE: Skipping Repetetive Links in Frames
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Hi Scott;
Thanks for your reply. You employed a very creative solution at
www.rcep7.org - without duplicating content! It looks like your site is
applying what I was thinking about: using the framed navigation to provide
an implicit "skip repetitive navigation" link.
My initial question - can this count as fulfilling the requirement in S.508
- seems to make sense logical: users can bypass a frameset and if all the
navigation is located in a single frame, that frame can be skipped over. Of
course, that doesn't alleviate the need for a <noframe> solution, but does
mean users can skip the repetitive navigation.
Thanks -
Joel Sanda
Product Manager
Product Engineering & Technology
-------------------------------------------------------www.eCollege.com
eCollege
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = <mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
p 303.873.7400 x3021
f 303.632.1721
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott Standifer [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2001 8:14 AM
To: WebAIM forum
Subject: Re: Skipping Repetitive Links in Frames
Hi Joel
I don't know if this helps, but you might take a look at how I
approached the issue of a navigation frame and duplicate text links at
our website www.rcep7.org. I basically made a stand-alone frames-free
site, with the navigation links at the bottom, then built the frames
version to access the frames-free pages as content. Navigating with the
buttons in the navigation frame keeps you in the frames mode. Navigating
with the text links at the bottom of the content pages lets you use
either the frames mode or the frames-free, low-graphics mode. That way I
get the effect of a duplicate text-only website and graphics heavy
website without dual maintenance. It did mean that I had to double up my
navigation links at the bottom, but I'm working on a Java solution to
that.
I didn't follow all of the issues of concern you described, so I
don't
know how well this solves your problems, but it might help.
Note that, because my navigation links are at the bottom, instead of
a
"skip navigation" link I put in an "end of content, navigation links
follow" message at the bottom of my pages for people using screen
readers. I also made sure that the first thing that loads in the frames
mode is always the link to the frames-free mode.
I'm working on starting a project to expand this "dual access"
approach
in web design, and I'd be interested to hear if anyone else has tried
it.
Scott Standifer
Instructional Designer
Region 7 Rehabilitation Continuing Education Program
(RCEP7)
University of Missouri, Columbia
>
> Date: 5 Oct 2001 15:54:23 -0600
> From: Joel Sanda < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Section 508 - Skipping Repetitive Links
>
> Hi all -
>
> I emailed the Access Board with this question (but never received a
> response) and am wondering what you all think.
>
> If a site uses frames, that are otherwise compliant with Section 508
> requirements, and one frame holds nothing but navigation, does that permit
> sufficient skipping of repetitive navigation links?
[snip]
>
> Thanks for any feedback!
>
> Joel Sanda
> Product Manager
> Product Engineering & Technology
---
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
---
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/