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From: julian.rickards@ndm.gov.on.ca
Date: Tue, Apr 08 2003 6:27AM
Subject: RE: Using JavaScript to modify forms
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Jared wrote:

<snip>
> In my opinion, as long as the JavaScript facilitates ease-of-use on
> the page, does not create accessibility barriers, and the page is
> still useable without JavaScript enabled, then why not use it?
</snip>

Good rules to follow. However, I wonder if the "Select All" button or link
is visible to non-JavaScript users. If it is and therefore, without
JavaScript, it doesn't work, might that not be a source of confusion for
both sighted and vision-impaired. If it is visible to non-JavaScript users,
then I suggest that it be JavaScript generated so that if JavaScript is
disabled, then this option will not appear.

For example:

<script type="text/javascript">
document.write("Click here to select all");
etc.
</script>

Jules


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From: Gerard Corboz
Date: Tue, Apr 08 2003 5:20PM
Subject: Complex forms
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Hi everyone

I've been aware of the basics of accessibility for quite a while now but
have not delved into the nuts and bolts. As demand from our clients grow I
am required to have the answers.

One thing that I'm struggling with is the best way to present a complex
form. All the examples I have seen to date are reasonably simple. The
majority of our clients are Australian government departments many of which
have lengthy and complex forms.

When I say complex I am talking about a lot of explanatory text that goes
with the form (at the start, during and at the end), a lot of skipping i.e.
if answer is no then go to question xyz, a lot of detailed and complex data
etc. I have observed a blind person using Jaws a few times and have noticed
that when it comes to form filling they enter into a 'forms' mode which
appeared to skip a lot of the explanatory text that came with the example
form that we were looking at and read the labels and other extra information
tags that were associated with each particular field in the form.

I would be very interested in having a look at some complex forms that
readers of this mailing list have developed to get an idea how some if not
all of these issues are being overcome.

Regards

Gerard Corboz
---------
Perform
Information Design Solutions
ph: 6214 0968
fax: 6214 0964
mobile: 0402 236 358
http://www.perform.net.au
Join our mailing list - http://www.perform.net.au/News/
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From: Jon Gunderson
Date: Wed, Apr 09 2003 7:49AM
Subject: Re: Complex forms
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There are a couple issues:
1. Proper labeling of form controls
2. Using headings (H1-H6) to indicate different sections of the forms.
3. There also maybe issues if the forms have dynamic options that change
the form through scripting based on user responses.

Here are some lecture slides on labeling form controls:
http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/courses/2003-01-LIS350AR/lec10/index.html
http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/courses/2003-01-LIS350AR/lec11/index.html

Here is an example of accessible form design:
http://www.rehab.uiuc.edu/servlets/survey.survey6

Jon



At 10:14 AM 4/9/2003 +1000, you wrote:
>Hi everyone
>
>I've been aware of the basics of accessibility for quite a while now but
>have not delved into the nuts and bolts. As demand from our clients grow I
>am required to have the answers.
>
>One thing that I'm struggling with is the best way to present a complex
>form. All the examples I have seen to date are reasonably simple. The
>majority of our clients are Australian government departments many of which
>have lengthy and complex forms.
>
>When I say complex I am talking about a lot of explanatory text that goes
>with the form (at the start, during and at the end), a lot of skipping i.e.
>if answer is no then go to question xyz, a lot of detailed and complex data
>etc. I have observed a blind person using Jaws a few times and have noticed
>that when it comes to form filling they enter into a 'forms' mode which
>appeared to skip a lot of the explanatory text that came with the example
>form that we were looking at and read the labels and other extra information
>tags that were associated with each particular field in the form.
>
>I would be very interested in having a look at some complex forms that
>readers of this mailing list have developed to get an idea how some if not
>all of these issues are being overcome.
>
>Regards
>
>Gerard Corboz
>---------
>Perform
>Information Design Solutions
>ph: 6214 0968
>fax: 6214 0964
>mobile: 0402 236 358
>http://www.perform.net.au
>Join our mailing list - http://www.perform.net.au/News/
>---------
>
>Important
>
>The information transmitted in this email is for the use of the intended
>recipient only and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged
>material. If received in error, please delete all copies and advise the
>sender. The reproduction or dissemination of this email or its attachments
>is prohibited without the consent of the sender.
>
>
>----
>To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
>visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/

Jon Gunderson, Ph.D., ATP
Coordinator of Assistive Communication and Information Technology
Division of Rehabilitation - Education Services
MC-574
College of Applied Life Studies
University of Illinois at Urbana/Champaign
1207 S. Oak Street, Champaign, IL 61820

Voice: (217) 244-5870
Fax: (217) 333-0248

E-mail: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

WWW: http://cita.rehab.uiuc.edu/
WWW: http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~jongund



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From: Holly Marie
Date: Wed, Apr 09 2003 12:23PM
Subject: Re: Complex forms
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From: "Gerard Corboz"

> One thing that I'm struggling with is the best way to present a
complex
> form.


> When I say complex I am talking about a lot of explanatory text that
goes
> with the form (at the start, during and at the end), a lot of skipping
i.e.
> if answer is no then go to question xyz, a lot of detailed and complex
data
> etc. I have observed a blind person using Jaws a few times and have
noticed
> that when it comes to form filling they enter into a 'forms' mode
which
> appeared to skip a lot of the explanatory text that came with the
example
> form that we were looking at and read the labels and other extra
information
> tags that were associated with each particular field in the form.

I wonder if fieldset would be of use?
Content and associated form items could be placed inside those Fieldset
tags?
For XHTML I believe the inputs need to be contained in a block level
item, so P or Div would work?
Though I do not know if a user in Forms Mode would pick up that text
simply because it is contained in the fieldset tagset, or perhaps the
user is working with tabindex on the forms? (I did not include tabindex
here because the order is simple and clear.)

<form action="">
<fieldset >
<legend>Personal Information</legend>
<p>In this section, <strong>all areas are required</strong>. If you
would like to be called, please leave a daytime phone number where you
can be reached.<br /><br />
<label for="name">Name </label><br />
<input type="text" name="name" id="name" /><br />
<label for="address">Address </label><br />
<input type="text" name="address" id="address" /><br />
<label for="email">E-mail </label><br />
<input type="text" name="email" id="email" /><br /><br />

Your Phone Number <br />
<input type="text" name="phone" id="phone" />
<label for="call">Call Me</label>
<input type="checkbox" name="call" id="call" />
<label for="nocall">Don't Call Me</label>
<input type="checkbox" name="nocall" id="nocall" /><br />
</p>
</fieldset>
</form>

I wonder if placing a tabindex="NUMBER" on the associated content would
help include it with the form elements and order of items? Or, would the
device still skip the content?

<form action="">
<fieldset >
<legend>Personal Information</legend>
<p tabindex="1">In this section, <strong>all areas are
required</strong>. If you would like to be called, please leave a
daytime phone number where you can be reached.<br /><br />
<label for="name">Name </label><br />
<input type="text" name="name" id="name" tabindex="2" /><br />
<label for="address">Address </label><br />
<input type="text" name="address" id="address" tabindex="3" /><br />
<label for="email">E-mail </label><br />
<input type="text" name="email" id="email" tabindex="4" /><br /><br />

Your Phone Number <br />
<input type="text" name="phone" id="phone" tabindex="5" />
<label for="call">Call Me</label>
<input type="checkbox" name="call" id="call" tabindex="6" />
<label for="nocall">Don't Call Me</label>
<input type="checkbox" name="nocall" id="nocall" tabindex="7" /><br />
</p>
</fieldset>
</form>

Interesting.
I also read that using Tabindex may not be accurate if the user tabs
before the document is completely loaded or if there are scripts
involved that have or make other areas of the content appear after
actions. [something to consider when using tabindex, if it needs to be
used.]

holly


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