E-mail List Archives
Thread: accessibility for deaf
Number of posts in this thread: 17 (In chronological order)
From: HHamilto@doe.k12.ga.us
Date: Tue, Apr 18 2006 8:30AM
Subject: accessibility for deaf
No previous message | Next message →
I am curious about what is done to make web pages or other media accessible
for deaf users.
From: Patrick Lauke
Date: Tue, Apr 18 2006 8:50AM
Subject: RE: accessibility for deaf
← Previous message | Next message →
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> I am curious about what is done to make web pages or other
> media accessible
> for deaf users.
Off the top of my head, I can think of three:
* use clear and simple language, as english (or whatever) may
not be the user's first language (may be sign language)
* If using any kind of multimedia (video, audio, flash) use
captions (both for spoken words and non-speech information)
* (Budget permitting) provide content of web pages/document
in sign language; add signing to other multimedia resources
P
________________________________
Patrick H. Lauke
Web Editor / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
________________________________
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
________________________________
From: HHamilto@doe.k12.ga.us
Date: Tue, Apr 18 2006 9:00AM
Subject: RE: accessibility for deaf
← Previous message | Next message →
I see you are from the UK which seems far ahead of the US in this respect.
Generally the answer I get is "oh it is accessible. The deaf can see the
text" even though it is usually above the reading level of the average deaf
reader. What do the US members of this group think? and any other forward
thinkers as the British seem to be??
"Patrick Lauke"
<P.H.Lauke@salfor
d.ac.uk> To
Sent by: "WebAIM Discussion List"
webaim-forum-boun < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = .o cc
rg
Subject
RE: [WebAIM] accessibility for deaf
04/18/2006 10:46
AM
Please respond to
WebAIM Discussion
List
<webaim-forum@lis
t.webaim.org>
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> I am curious about what is done to make web pages or other
> media accessible
> for deaf users.
Off the top of my head, I can think of three:
* use clear and simple language, as english (or whatever) may
not be the user's first language (may be sign language)
* If using any kind of multimedia (video, audio, flash) use
captions (both for spoken words and non-speech information)
* (Budget permitting) provide content of web pages/document
in sign language; add signing to other multimedia resources
P
________________________________
Patrick H. Lauke
Web Editor / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
________________________________
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
________________________________
From: Patrick Lauke
Date: Tue, Apr 18 2006 9:20AM
Subject: RE: accessibility for deaf
← Previous message | Next message →
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> I see you are from the UK which seems far ahead of the US in
> this respect.
Just to clarify though: I'm not saying that I do all of those things
myself...just know that (with unlimited time and budget) those are
some of the things that should really be addressed :)
P
________________________________
Patrick H. Lauke
Web Editor / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
________________________________
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
________________________________
From: Kynn Bartlett
Date: Tue, Apr 18 2006 9:30AM
Subject: Re: accessibility for deaf
← Previous message | Next message →
On 4/18/06, Patrick Lauke < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> * use clear and simple language, as english (or whatever) may
> not be the user's first language (may be sign language)
Related to this -- when dealing with any population for whom the
language of the page may not be the primary language of the user, you
need to have forgiving forms whenever possible. This also benefits
people with various cognitive impairments.
(A "forgiving" form is one which can accept, process, and deal with
slight misspellings in typed text. It's harder to do than it sounds,
really.)
It is also important to consider the needs of deaf-blind users.
--Kynn
--
Kynn Bartlett < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Writer, Web Developer, Photographer, Game Designer
Tucson, Arizona
http://kynn.com
From: HHamilto@doe.k12.ga.us
Date: Tue, Apr 18 2006 9:40AM
Subject: RE: accessibility for deaf
← Previous message | Next message →
Some tools we have developed are at www.aasdweb.com/CATS. If anyone has
other tools, let me know please
"Patrick Lauke"
<P.H.Lauke@salfor
d.ac.uk> To
Sent by: "WebAIM Discussion List"
webaim-forum-boun < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = .o cc
rg
Subject
RE: [WebAIM] accessibility for deaf
04/18/2006 11:12
AM
Please respond to
WebAIM Discussion
List
<webaim-forum@lis
t.webaim.org>
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> I see you are from the UK which seems far ahead of the US in
> this respect.
Just to clarify though: I'm not saying that I do all of those things
myself...just know that (with unlimited time and budget) those are
some of the things that should really be addressed :)
P
________________________________
Patrick H. Lauke
Web Editor / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
________________________________
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/
________________________________
From: smithj7
Date: Tue, Apr 18 2006 6:00PM
Subject: RE: accessibility for deaf
← Previous message | Next message →
We only have a few items that would effect someone who is deaf on our
site. We use closed captioning for video and provide a text alternative
for audio.
E.g. http://dbs.myflorida.com/tours/index.shtml
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:28 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: [WebAIM] accessibility for deaf
I am curious about what is done to make web pages or other media
accessible for deaf users.
Address list
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: smithj7
Date: Tue, Apr 18 2006 9:10PM
Subject: RE: accessibility for deaf - forward thinking - may justwant to delete
← Previous message | Next message →
To = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Hi, from your email address it looks like I'm your "neighbor". I work
for Florida DOE. Your question about are there any forward thinkers in
the US was quite thought provoking and for me, at this time, also like
opening a can of worms.
(Speaking of worms - I liked your little book worm... We have a cut
animated talking book.)
I in no way want to undermine the importance of ensuring that a website
is totally accessible to all users including people who are deaf.
However, I don't think it is lack of forward thinking on part of (at
least the Florida state employee web developers) that is our issue in
the US.
On the personal level I believe I am a forward thinker. I try to think
in terms of ALL users. But it is a real struggle in our state, mainly
because of lack of top down leadership. I must consistently remind
people in my division (an agency serving persons with disabilities) that
websites must comply with standards. I try to push the concept of
"universal design". (Note - we are an agency for the blind but they
didn't understand why I insistented on closed captioning for videos and
provide text equivelents for audio only material they want on the web
site).
I also strongly feel that most Florida state department web
administrators are also forward thinkers.
On the one hand, I believe the US has many great laws thanks to hard
fights by consumers for persons with disabilities (e.g. ADA, IDEA,
Pratt-Smott(library copyright law)). On the other hand, I don't believe
the current leadership places a high value on these particular laws.
I don't know much about how federal or GA politics effect your agency.
But in Florida, state government is all about politics. In Florida, our
DOE commissor and most agency heads are political appointees and almost
half of all state employees are now employees that are "at the pleasure
of..." So pleasing leadership for such employees means keeping a job.
Forward thinking takes on a different meaning. Forward thinking is
linked to leadership thinking.
I personally know almost ever web administrator of Florida state
government and they have consistently tried to ensure that sites are at
minimum meet 508 standards since at least 2000. They have pushed to
make the state technology office establish 508 standards as the state
technology standard. Based on who is appointed to that position it has
been a guideline, a standard, a guideline, and either enforced or not
enforced. Many state agency web administrators have gotten frustrated
and began writing their own agency standards using 508 and gotten or
trying to get them approved by their agency head so they can enforce
standards in Florida with the many web masters under them.
Our govenor's need to outsource resulted in a lot of poorly designed web
applications. Even with great laws to ensure that people with
disabilities should be "able to get in the door - so to speak" contract
agencies were allowed to do their own thing. The one that got the most
headlines, was the new very expensive system used by all state employees
(PeopleFirst). Even employees without disabilities were having issues
that would not have surfaced if even basic ideas of web accessiblity
were used. Employees using assistive technology (not just speech) who
are blind still cannot access the employee system without sighted
assistance. Legislators throughout the state were contacted. Employees
who could not access the system (mostly people who were blind) contacted
consumer groups to attempt to get a class action suit started.
As a result, consumer groups (mainly Florida National Federation of the
Blind and Florida Council for the Blind) began fighting for a state law
this session to make sure that all state agencies and all agencies for
which the state contracts will comply with 508 of the Rehab Act for web
applications. (just passed in the house)
At this point since people who are blind were the most effected by bad
web applications from contracting agencies, our state's web development
and application folks are focusing on making applications and sites
accessible for persons using speech. For some reason, speech equates
with accessiblity. Our employees that are blind but users of low vision
technology aren't even being thought of even though this group which are
technically defined as "legally blind" represent a larger population
than people using speech.
Oh... The topic was on accessiblity for the deaf... The topic appeared
to have got lost in this email, but not because of lack of forward
thinking. Our country (US) and my state's leadership appears to only
give lip service to powerful laws. In Florida, this resulted in lack of
access for a group of people to do simply stuff like doing time sheets
or for supervisors to approve leave. I know two people who are deaf and
state employees and one who is hard of hearing, and they were able to do
these required tasks. It becomes difficult to be as forward thinking as
our British friend when we can't get our government leaders to ensure
that the door isn't being slammed shut on a specific group of persons.
Who will promote a blind state employee that can't use a system to
manage his/her employees without a sighted aid?
Maybe we need to add a standard to all web accessiblity standards in the
US that all leaders will take disablity sensitivity training including a
section on web access. I pretty jaded at this point in time and have
both good and evil suggestions for the latter... Will share if asked.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:55 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: RE: [WebAIM] accessibility for deaf
I see you are from the UK which seems far ahead of the US in this
respect. Generally the answer I get is "oh it is accessible. The deaf
can see the text" even though it is usually above the reading level of
the average deaf reader. What do the US members of this group think? and
any other forward thinkers as the British seem to be??
"Patrick Lauke"
<P.H.Lauke@salfor
d.ac.uk>
To
Sent by: "WebAIM Discussion List"
webaim-forum-boun < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = .o
cc
rg
Subject
RE: [WebAIM] accessibility for
deaf
04/18/2006 10:46
AM
Please respond to
WebAIM Discussion
List
<webaim-forum@lis
t.webaim.org>
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> I am curious about what is done to make web pages or other media
> accessible for deaf users.
Off the top of my head, I can think of three:
* use clear and simple language, as english (or whatever) may not be the
user's first language (may be sign language)
* If using any kind of multimedia (video, audio, flash) use captions
(both for spoken words and non-speech information)
* (Budget permitting) provide content of web pages/document
in sign language; add signing to other multimedia resources
P
________________________________
Patrick H. Lauke
Web Editor / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
________________________________
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/ ________________________________
Address list
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Address list
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: Christian Heilmann
Date: Wed, Apr 19 2006 2:50AM
Subject: Re: accessibility for deaf
← Previous message | Next message →
> > I am curious about what is done to make web pages or other
> > media accessible
> > for deaf users.
> Off the top of my head, I can think of three:
> * use clear and simple language, as english (or whatever) may
> not be the user's first language (may be sign language)
Well, that is a good idea in any web content.
> * If using any kind of multimedia (video, audio, flash) use
> captions (both for spoken words and non-speech information)
I think that is the only real practical scenario where there is a real
strong need for a change of the product to help deaf users. It is
never a good plan to rely on audio alone to offer any functionality,
content or send warnings. I for one never have audio on on this laptop
as we listen to the radio at the office.
> * (Budget permitting) provide content of web pages/document
> in sign language; add signing to other multimedia resources
Isn't the next issue there that there is no international sign
language, but that you'd need to localise the sign language version
aswell?
--
Chris Heilmann
Blog: http://www.wait-till-i.com
Writing: http://icant.co.uk/
Binaries: http://www.onlinetools.org/
From: Penny Roberts
Date: Wed, Apr 19 2006 3:20AM
Subject: Re: accessibility for deaf
← Previous message | Next message →
Christian Heilmann wrote:
>> * If using any kind of multimedia (video, audio, flash) use
>> captions (both for spoken words and non-speech information)
>
> I think that is the only real practical scenario where there is a real
> strong need for a change of the product to help deaf users. It is
> never a good plan to rely on audio alone to offer any functionality,
> content or send warnings. I for one never have audio on on this laptop
> as we listen to the radio at the office.
I visited a site the other day which started with a message along the
lines of "You must have sound enabled to use this site". I've no idea
what gems of information were in the audio - here in the library system
nearly all machines have sound disabled :-)
Penny
From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Wed, Apr 19 2006 3:30AM
Subject: Re: accessibility for deaf
← Previous message | Next message →
Quoting Christian Heilmann < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:
>> * (Budget permitting) provide content of web pages/document
>> in sign language; add signing to other multimedia resources
>
> Isn't the next issue there that there is no international sign
> language, but that you'd need to localise the sign language version
> aswell?
Bingo. You end up with the whole internationalisation / multilingual
web sites issue all over again.
P
--
Patrick H. Lauke
___________
re
From: HHamilto@doe.k12.ga.us
Date: Wed, Apr 19 2006 6:00AM
Subject: RE: accessibility for deaf - forward thinking - mayjust want to delete
← Previous message | Next message →
As you say there are forward thinkers but I think the law(captioning) and
its date of establishment(1970's, much before digital video created a new
world of accessibility options ) hinder accessibility for deaf users,
particularly children, today.I have had many many companies who produce
media look at the law and say they are making their material accessible
because it is captioned even though their target audience (children) can't
read it Sesame Street is the biggest offender. It is a program designed for
pre-reading hearing children, yet is made accessible via captions for deaf
children with far less language and reading skills than their hearing
peers.
Maybe it is time for the law to be revisited.?
"smithj7"
<smithj7@peoplepc
.com> To
Sent by: "'WebAIM Discussion List'"
webaim-forum-boun < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = .o cc
rg
Subject
RE: [WebAIM] accessibility for deaf
04/18/2006 11:02 - forward thinking - may just
PM want to delete
Please respond to
smithj7@peoplepc.
com; Please
respond to
WebAIM Discussion
List
<webaim-forum@lis
t.webaim.org>
To = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Hi, from your email address it looks like I'm your "neighbor". I work
for Florida DOE. Your question about are there any forward thinkers in
the US was quite thought provoking and for me, at this time, also like
opening a can of worms.
(Speaking of worms - I liked your little book worm... We have a cut
animated talking book.)
I in no way want to undermine the importance of ensuring that a website
is totally accessible to all users including people who are deaf.
However, I don't think it is lack of forward thinking on part of (at
least the Florida state employee web developers) that is our issue in
the US.
On the personal level I believe I am a forward thinker. I try to think
in terms of ALL users. But it is a real struggle in our state, mainly
because of lack of top down leadership. I must consistently remind
people in my division (an agency serving persons with disabilities) that
websites must comply with standards. I try to push the concept of
"universal design". (Note - we are an agency for the blind but they
didn't understand why I insistented on closed captioning for videos and
provide text equivelents for audio only material they want on the web
site).
I also strongly feel that most Florida state department web
administrators are also forward thinkers.
On the one hand, I believe the US has many great laws thanks to hard
fights by consumers for persons with disabilities (e.g. ADA, IDEA,
Pratt-Smott(library copyright law)). On the other hand, I don't believe
the current leadership places a high value on these particular laws.
I don't know much about how federal or GA politics effect your agency.
But in Florida, state government is all about politics. In Florida, our
DOE commissor and most agency heads are political appointees and almost
half of all state employees are now employees that are "at the pleasure
of..." So pleasing leadership for such employees means keeping a job.
Forward thinking takes on a different meaning. Forward thinking is
linked to leadership thinking.
I personally know almost ever web administrator of Florida state
government and they have consistently tried to ensure that sites are at
minimum meet 508 standards since at least 2000. They have pushed to
make the state technology office establish 508 standards as the state
technology standard. Based on who is appointed to that position it has
been a guideline, a standard, a guideline, and either enforced or not
enforced. Many state agency web administrators have gotten frustrated
and began writing their own agency standards using 508 and gotten or
trying to get them approved by their agency head so they can enforce
standards in Florida with the many web masters under them.
Our govenor's need to outsource resulted in a lot of poorly designed web
applications. Even with great laws to ensure that people with
disabilities should be "able to get in the door - so to speak" contract
agencies were allowed to do their own thing. The one that got the most
headlines, was the new very expensive system used by all state employees
(PeopleFirst). Even employees without disabilities were having issues
that would not have surfaced if even basic ideas of web accessiblity
were used. Employees using assistive technology (not just speech) who
are blind still cannot access the employee system without sighted
assistance. Legislators throughout the state were contacted. Employees
who could not access the system (mostly people who were blind) contacted
consumer groups to attempt to get a class action suit started.
As a result, consumer groups (mainly Florida National Federation of the
Blind and Florida Council for the Blind) began fighting for a state law
this session to make sure that all state agencies and all agencies for
which the state contracts will comply with 508 of the Rehab Act for web
applications. (just passed in the house)
At this point since people who are blind were the most effected by bad
web applications from contracting agencies, our state's web development
and application folks are focusing on making applications and sites
accessible for persons using speech. For some reason, speech equates
with accessiblity. Our employees that are blind but users of low vision
technology aren't even being thought of even though this group which are
technically defined as "legally blind" represent a larger population
than people using speech.
Oh... The topic was on accessiblity for the deaf... The topic appeared
to have got lost in this email, but not because of lack of forward
thinking. Our country (US) and my state's leadership appears to only
give lip service to powerful laws. In Florida, this resulted in lack of
access for a group of people to do simply stuff like doing time sheets
or for supervisors to approve leave. I know two people who are deaf and
state employees and one who is hard of hearing, and they were able to do
these required tasks. It becomes difficult to be as forward thinking as
our British friend when we can't get our government leaders to ensure
that the door isn't being slammed shut on a specific group of persons.
Who will promote a blind state employee that can't use a system to
manage his/her employees without a sighted aid?
Maybe we need to add a standard to all web accessiblity standards in the
US that all leaders will take disablity sensitivity training including a
section on web access. I pretty jaded at this point in time and have
both good and evil suggestions for the latter... Will share if asked.
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Sent: Tuesday, April 18, 2006 10:55 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: RE: [WebAIM] accessibility for deaf
I see you are from the UK which seems far ahead of the US in this
respect. Generally the answer I get is "oh it is accessible. The deaf
can see the text" even though it is usually above the reading level of
the average deaf reader. What do the US members of this group think? and
any other forward thinkers as the British seem to be??
"Patrick Lauke"
<P.H.Lauke@salfor
d.ac.uk>
To
Sent by: "WebAIM Discussion List"
webaim-forum-boun < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = .o
cc
rg
Subject
RE: [WebAIM] accessibility for
deaf
04/18/2006 10:46
AM
Please respond to
WebAIM Discussion
List
<webaim-forum@lis
t.webaim.org>
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> I am curious about what is done to make web pages or other media
> accessible for deaf users.
Off the top of my head, I can think of three:
* use clear and simple language, as english (or whatever) may not be the
user's first language (may be sign language)
* If using any kind of multimedia (video, audio, flash) use captions
(both for spoken words and non-speech information)
* (Budget permitting) provide content of web pages/document
in sign language; add signing to other multimedia resources
P
________________________________
Patrick H. Lauke
Web Editor / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
________________________________
Web Standards Project (WaSP) Accessibility Task Force
http://webstandards.org/ ________________________________
Address list
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Address list
messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: zara
Date: Sat, Apr 22 2006 12:00PM
Subject: RE: accessibility for deaf
← Previous message | Next message →
> > Isn't the next issue there that there is no international sign
> > language, but that you'd need to localise the sign language version
> > aswell?
>
> Bingo. You end up with the whole internationalisation / multilingual
> web sites issue all over again.
Perhaps for Web sites addressing an international audience but is it not fair to say that more often than not, Web sites will address local populations first ?
Despite English being a dominant language on the Web, there is no international language either except for Esperanto (and a few other constructed international languages) which never was able to impose itself as such.
Most countries have their own language (or "regional" take on a language) and the same can probably be said for sign language. For example, here in Qu
From: Christian Heilmann
Date: Sat, Apr 22 2006 5:20PM
Subject: Re: accessibility for deaf
← Previous message | Next message →
> So unless you are expressly addressing an international audience, this should not be a problem or am I missing something ?
The "world" in world wide web? :-)
From: zara
Date: Sat, Apr 22 2006 6:10PM
Subject: RE: accessibility for deaf
← Previous message | Next message →
> > So unless you are expressly addressing an international audience, this
> should not be a problem or am I missing something ?
>
> The "world" in world wide web? :-)
Your answer does not surprise me but if the "World" in World Wide Web was truly considered, a diversity of languages would be more promoted rather than more and more organisations feeling pressured to publish in English.
I understand the international aspect of the Web, that anyone from anywhere can land on any page that is public. But as a person whose native language is French, when I surf Web sites from the US or other English-speaking countries, or Web sites from Scandinavia or Spain or Germany, etc., I do not expect them to offer up French content. I expect them to offer first and foremost content according to official languages of that country. I doubt deaf people in Qu
From: Christian Heilmann
Date: Sun, Apr 23 2006 12:20AM
Subject: Re: accessibility for deaf
← Previous message | Next message →
> And so again, while sites addressing international audiences will surely have a problem with providing sign language, those many sites addressing "local" populations, from governments to corporations, etc., should not get the notion not to do it because there is no "international sign language".
Is there an assistive software that could translate text into sign
language? While that could only have the grace and usefulness of
babelfish (as language translation is a human thing and just cannot be
automated) it could be helpful.
From: HHamilto@doe.k12.ga.us
Date: Mon, Apr 24 2006 9:40AM
Subject: Re: accessibility for deaf
← Previous message | No next message
a good text to sign translator is the holy grail. There are some attempts
but their not yet the "killer app"