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Thread: Links in context - or not?

Number of posts in this thread: 19 (In chronological order)

From: Webb, KerryA
Date: Thu, Oct 30 2008 11:10PM
Subject: Links in context - or not?
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One of our Web managers has asked me for advice on this topic:

To improve access for the visually impaired on our new website, we are
adopting this approach:

* Minimising the number of links in the middle of sentences - as it
interrupts the screen reading process
* Preferably having links at the end of sentences
* Or better still having links under a Relevant links heading

My initial response was that all users would be better served by having
links in context, but I said that I'd ask if anyone was better informed
about this.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Kerry Webb

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From: Jens Meiert
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 3:15AM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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> * Minimising the number of links in the middle of sentences - as it
> interrupts the screen reading process
> * Preferably having links at the end of sentences
> * Or better still having links under a Relevant links heading

This seems to ignore the medium, as you're dealing with hypertext.
Other than that, the situation you're describing does not per se mean
any accessibility issues.

--
Jens Meiert
http://meiert.com/en/

From: Peter Krantz
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 3:45AM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 6:08 AM, Webb, KerryA < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> My initial response was that all users would be better served by having
> links in context, but I said that I'd ask if anyone was better informed
> about this.
>

Links are are inline elements and are designed for being used in
context. Moving the links out of context will create a different
problem for readers in that they may be difficult to find without
editors having to write things like "see second link in the list to
the right". I also get the feeling that you assume that users read
your material from top to bottom, like a paper version. This may be
the case, but it is also common that users skim online texts. In the
latter case inline links may help visually structuring the text and
make it easier to find "hooks" for eye movement.

Regards,

Peter Krantz

From: emma.dukewilliams
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 3:50AM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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On Oct 31, 2008 9:14am, Jens Meiert < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > * Minimising the number of links in the middle of sentences - as it
>
> > interrupts the screen reading process
>
> > * Preferably having links at the end of sentences
>
> > * Or better still having links under a Relevant links heading

The Usability Lab at Wichita did some research into this - it's a while ago
& they were looking at academic type information - the sort you'd expect a
user to read much on screen as they would on paper (ie skim first, then in
detail, in the "right" order)
In terms of how well users understood the material (ie their ability to
answer comprehension questions based on it) there wasn't any difference. In
terms of what they preferred, it was embedded. (I assume none were screen
reader users, though there may well have been users with dyslexia and/ or
some visual difficulties - just not those great enough to require screen
reading technology)
http://www.surl.org/usabilitynews/32/links.asp

Emma

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 5:00AM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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I always suggest using the links in context not only for people using screen
readers, but for people with learning or cognitive disabilities whose
thought processes would be interrupted by visually jumping over long URL's
in sentences or at the end of sentences. This also applies for people using
screen magnification who have to try to navigate through text with long
bands of blue underlined text with URL information. Even for people without
disabilities, the length of some of the URL's disrupts the readability of
text.

It is handy to have the link right where you are reading about the topic and
being able to go to another resource while you are reading and interested in
the topic. I find that if I have to put aside going to another resource, I
never get back to it, but that is just me.

In both my Accessible and Usable PDF Documents: Techniques for Document
Authors, and Logical Document Structure Handbook: Word 2003, I recommend the
use of contextual links in all documents for the reasons I stated above. In
Word, I recommend supplementing the contextual URL with a footnote or
endnote that has the long URL to facilitate printing and still being able to
access the link information when away from the computer. This is also the
technique I teach during training workshops.

I am a very strong advocate of contextual links as they help everyone with
the readability of documents.

I also teach that they should remain blue with the underline because if you
try to make them just like the text, they then become invisible to people
who are not using screen readers. The blue text with the underline isn't as
distracting as either the long URL's or mousing around a page trying to see
if there are links on it because the link text looks like the rest of the
document text.

Cheers, Karen.

From: Carol Wheeler
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 7:40AM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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While we are all about making pages work for users, another consideration--and one no good Web Master will ignore--is that contextual links improve your SEO.

Carol E. Wheeler
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Web Department
American Institute for Cancer Research
1759 R Street NW
Washington DC 20009
Tel: 202-328-7744
Fax: 202-328-7226
http://www.aicr.org

From: Moore, Michael
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 7:40AM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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Karen wrote:

I also teach that they should remain blue with the underline because if
you
try to make them just like the text, they then become invisible to
people
who are not using screen readers. The blue text with the underline isn't
as
distracting as either the long URL's or mousing around a page trying to
see
if there are links on it because the link text looks like the rest of
the
document text.

Mike:

I concur and would like to emphasize that the underlining of links
within blocks of text is very important for colorblind and low vision
users who may not realize that they are links otherwise. Along the same
line of thought, I recommend avoiding the use of underlined text for
emphasis because folks will expect that the underlined text will be a
link.

I believe that the underlining is more important than the color, so if
you have to compromise with the design/marketing people I would give on
color first, as long as the color was noticeably different than the text
color, but insist on at least a dashed underline for links. (Yes, the
dashed line is the default display for acronyms in some browsers, so the
solution is not perfect)

From: Cliff Tyllick
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 8:30AM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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Others have covered this issue well from the standpoint of impact on people who have some vision, but no one has pointed out that this is a change that wouldn't particularly benefit people who must rely on an assistive technology that reads the text to them.

JAWS and other true ATs can produce and read a list of all links in the page, regardless of where they're located. I haven't worked with very many folks who use AT, but every one I've encountered uses this feature to skim the contents of a page, just as sighted readers will first scan for links without really reading the text.

Sighted or not, users show us that links in context, especially when the wording of the text in each link is meaningful, work best for them. So going to the trouble of sequestering the links at the end of the paragraph or in a sidebar creates some new problems and offers no benefit -- even though I highly respect one leader in the field of Web design who espouses that approach.

Cliff Tyllick
Web development coordinator
Agency Communications Division
Texas Commission on Environmental Quality
512-239-4516
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

>>> "Webb, KerryA" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > 10/31/2008 12:08 AM >>>
One of our Web managers has asked me for advice on this topic:

To improve access for the visually impaired on our new website, we are
adopting this approach:

* Minimising the number of links in the middle of sentences - as it
interrupts the screen reading process
* Preferably having links at the end of sentences
* Or better still having links under a Relevant links heading

My initial response was that all users would be better served by having
links in context, but I said that I'd ask if anyone was better informed
about this.

Any suggestions?

Thanks

Kerry Webb

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From: Karlen Communications
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 9:00AM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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Agreed and something I also teach...avoid the use of underline for generic
text.

Cheers, Karen

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 9:05AM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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Agreed, as a person who uses JAWS I use the list of links, list of headings,
List of form controls...anything that lets me get a better look at the
"content" on the page without spending hours reading through the page. :-)

Cheers, Karen

From: Wayne Dick
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 10:40AM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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I many ways I think this discussion is off point. You are
discussing accommodation. Accessibility standards are hard
enough to teach developers. I think asking them to code
accommodations into pages will be the place where they just
conclude that accessibility compliance is just too hard.

Regarding links: With a screen reader never bothers me
mid-sentence. Most sentences that include links are not literary
enough to require an uninterrupted flow of reading.

The key thing to emphasize lists of group similar links under
descriptive headings to enable heading navigation up to the
important list. That is an effective accessibility action that
really speeds up reading.

As far as underline is concerned, I like it. When I use my eyes
it is usually with a talking browser. I use my eyes to pick out
gross objects. The underlines make the links stand out. So, I
like it.
However, I am 100% sure you can find another person with partial
sight who will hate it. We all adapt differently.

My main hope is that I get an accessibility compliant page. I
have preferences on how to meet the standards, but I can do
something reasonable with compliant code. Which standard do you
use, 508, WCAG 1 or 2, other national or state laws the rely on
WCAG as a base... Most standards cover everything, WCAG 2 is the
easiest to read and implement. It doesn't matter. If the page
meets standards, assistive technology can to something
reasonable.

Wayne

----- Original Message -----
From: "Karlen Communications" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
To: "'WebAIM Discussion List'" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Links in context - or not?

> Agreed, as a person who uses JAWS I use the list of links, list
> of headings,
> List of form controls...anything that lets me get a better look
> at the
> "content" on the page without spending hours reading through
> the page. :-)
>
> Cheers, Karen
>
>

From: Wayne Dick
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 10:45AM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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From: Peter Krantz
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 2:30PM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Jukka K. Korpela < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> That was my initial feeling when authoring web pages, and I still use
> "contextual links" for _non-essential_ links, but I have changed my general
> opinion on this. The way the human mind works, we first read (or listen or
> whatever) the main content, as continuous flow, and then we decide whether
> we wish to follow links to secondary material.

I guess it depends on what type of content we are talking about. Jacon
Nielsen did some research on this in "How Users Read on the Web"
(supported by Steven Krug in Don't Make me Think). As I interpret it
users don't always take in information in a linear fashion. See

http://www.useit.com/alertbox/9710a.html
and http://www.sensible.com/chapter.html

regards,

Peter

From: Jukka K. Korpela
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 1:51PM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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Webb, KerryA wrote:

> One of our Web managers has asked me for advice on this topic:
>
> To improve access for the visually impaired on our new website, we are
> adopting this approach:
>
> * Minimising the number of links in the middle of sentences - as it
> interrupts the screen reading process
> * Preferably having links at the end of sentences
> * Or better still having links under a Relevant links heading

It's a bit strange that people who have responded so far have expressed
sentiments to the contrary. I would say that this is the way to go.

> My initial response was that all users would be better served by
> having links in context, but I said that I'd ask if anyone was better
> informed about this.

That was my initial feeling when authoring web pages, and I still use
"contextual links" for _non-essential_ links, but I have changed my general
opinion on this. The way the human mind works, we first read (or listen or
whatever) the main content, as continuous flow, and then we decide whether
we wish to follow links to secondary material.

Screen readers are just a small part of this. When you read an article, you
don't normally want to make excursions to other material. You might
appreciate a "further reading" suggestion at the end, but not in the middle
of the presentation. It's like saying "I don't know whether I picked up the
relevant content".

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

From: Jukka K. Korpela
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 3:00PM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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Peter Krantz wrote:

> On Fri, Oct 31, 2008 at 8:50 PM, Jukka K. Korpela
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>
>> That was my initial feeling when authoring web pages, and I still use
>> "contextual links" for _non-essential_ links, but I have changed my
>> general opinion on this. The way the human mind works, we first read
>> (or listen or whatever) the main content, as continuous flow, and
>> then we decide whether we wish to follow links to secondary material.
>
> I guess it depends on what type of content we are talking about. Jacon
> Nielsen did some research on this in "How Users Read on the Web"
> (supported by Steven Krug in Don't Make me Think). As I interpret it
> users don't always take in information in a linear fashion.

Well, maybe, but the question is where to put your links.

People get disturbed when they don't which link to follow. The cure is to
make your point. then offer a list of links to the finer points.

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

From: Keith Parks
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 4:10PM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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On Oct 31, 2008, at 1:56 PM, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

> Well, maybe, but the question is where to put your links.
>
> People get disturbed when they don't which link to follow. The cure
> is to
> make your point. then offer a list of links to the finer points.

Why would I not know which link to follow with inline links?

I understand your thinking has changed, but in your own site there are
examples of inline links that seem to be great examples of why you
*would* keep them inline.

For instance, your page "images.html", about 1/3 of the way through,
under "Images - why?". You have a couple of inline links to reference
materials. I think users could reasonably predict what they lead to
(though the links seem to be broken), but there's nothing that is
distracting about them or that blocks me from reading the information.
But if instead of being hyperlinked inline, that same text was
repeated at the end of that subsection, for instance, the links out of
context would likely be less clear in terms of what point they were
presented as additional reference for.

Particularly the one that is not in English, "Bilder ur Nordens
Flora". In context it is fine, but as a stand alone link you would
need to add more text around it to re-provide some context.

Same thing a little further down in the "Supportive image" paragraph.
You present a couple of links that I can choose to click on or not.
But those same links, if presented somewhere else on the page, would
be a lot less user-friendly.

******************************
Keith Parks
Graphic Designer/Web Designer
Student Affairs Communications Services
San Diego State University
San Diego, CA 92182-7444
(619) 594-1046
mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.sa.sdsu.edu/communications

http://kparks.deviantart.com/gallery
----------------------------------------------------------

World Peace through Cascading Style Sheets.

From: Keith Parks
Date: Fri, Oct 31 2008 4:20PM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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Forgot one other thing...

On Oct 31, 2008, at 12:50 PM, Jukka K. Korpela wrote:

>>
> That was my initial feeling when authoring web pages, and I still use
> "contextual links" for _non-essential_ links... [snip]

How do you make the distinction between essential and non-essential
links?

What one person might consider a helpful, relevant link might be of no
interest to someone else.

I'll use an example from one of my own site here...

<http://www.sa.sdsu.edu/nspp/orientation/transfer/parents.html>;

In the bottom half of the page is a section about our Parents
Association. In it there's an inline link to the association's Web
site. The link is provided as a convenience, but it is probably not
"essential, since hopefully someone could find the page through other
means. But I can't see the upside of taking delinking that text, and
repeating it at the bottom of the paragraph with a note that it is a
"relevant link."

******************************
Keith Parks
Graphic Designer/Web Designer
Student Affairs Communications Services
San Diego State University
San Diego, CA 92182-7444
(619) 594-1046
mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.sa.sdsu.edu/communications

http://kparks.deviantart.com/gallery
----------------------------------------------------------

(Objects on your screen may be closer than they appear)

From: Jukka K. Korpela
Date: Sat, Nov 01 2008 5:00AM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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Keith Parks wrote:

> How do you make the distinction between essential and non-essential
> links?

By deciding which links are needed by a large number of users for the
purpose of getting information (or interacting) on the main topic of the
page. For example, if the page sells something, then a link to a page where
you can actually buy the product is essential, and so is a link to a more
detailed product description than the page itself contains. A link to a
biography of the designer of the product is non-essential, even though some
people might find it very interesting and it might actually help to sell the
product.

> What one person might consider a helpful, relevant link might be of no
> interest to someone else.

Surely, and the same applies to content in general. As authors we need to
deal with such issues anyway.

> <http://www.sa.sdsu.edu/nspp/orientation/transfer/parents.html>;
>
> In the bottom half of the page is a section about our Parents
> Association. In it there's an inline link to the association's Web
> site.

In non-visual presentation, it will be rendered roughly as follows:

"Aztec Parents Association Parents as Partners in contributing to student
success!
Aztec Parents Association logo Parents have a personal connection to
SDSU through the LINK /Aztec Parents Association/. Membership in the Aztec
Parents Association ..."

Rather repetitive, isn't it? And the occurrence of the name that is a link
is neither the first nor the last one but somewhere in the middle. Why would
_that_ be the point where the user decides to follow the link? Even in
visual reading, wouldn't it be more natural to see the link after you have
read what the current page says about the topic?

> The link is provided as a convenience, but it is probably not
> "essential, since hopefully someone could find the page through other
> means.

Being essential doesn't mean that. It means that the link points to
something that essentially adds to the main theme of the page.

But in a sense, you make a good point implicitly, a different point. Linking
in general, essential or non-essential, isn't as important and as useful as
it used to be. For example, a name like "Aztec Parents Association", used in
quotes, will most probably give the page of the association among the very
first hits in Google.

(Of course, there's also the dilemma, or paradox, that Google heavily relies
on linking.)

> But I can't see the upside of taking delinking that text, and
> repeating it at the bottom of the paragraph with a note that it is a
> "relevant link."

(Who suggested such a note?)

Admittedly, taking links away from the flow of the text has the problem of
adding repetition, especially if you want to use meaningful link texts that
make sense out of context, as you should. On news pages, for example, the
"read more" links are very common and bad accessibility, but I can
understand why they are used. In good style, you would have a heading, maybe
a subheading, then copy text, and finally a link to the full text of the
news, the link text being the same as the heading (or perhaps a different
formulation). So the heading would be repeated, but is this really a bad
thing?

Similarly, in a situation like the one on your page, mentioning the
organization's name twice isn't a bad thing. It could appear at the start
and, as a link, at the end. In the text itself you could say just "the
association". If we remove unnecessary repetition, then the repetition
needed for avoiding inside-text linking isn't much of a problem. (We may
have the problem of _formulating_ the link, since e.g. just an organization
name as a link may look abrupt, whereas "There is more information at the
web site..." looks pretty naive.)

--
Yucca, http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/

From: Webb, KerryA
Date: Tue, Nov 04 2008 4:00PM
Subject: Re: Links in context - or not?
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Thanks to everyone who responded to this question.

My colleague appreciates it very much.

Kerry

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