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Thread: Screen reader support for PDF forms
Number of posts in this thread: 5 (In chronological order)
From: Michael.Moore@dars.state.tx.us
Date: Wed, Jan 26 2011 1:18PM
Subject: Screen reader support for PDF forms
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Hi,
I know that PDF forms when built properly are well supported using NVDA and JFW. Even dynamic forms are now well supported in current releases of those screen readers.
How well are they supported with other screen readers such as Apple's VoiceOver, Dolphin's HAL/SuperNova, GW Micro's Window Eyes or Orca? Does anyone have a matrix that lists what is supported by which versions? I am particularly interested in dynamic feature support such as branching logic and expandable text fields.
Mike Moore
From: Birkir Rúnar Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, Jan 26 2011 1:36PM
Subject: Re: Screen reader support for PDF forms
← Previous message | Next message →
Mike
Before Hal v12 there was no pdf form support (no pdf support except
reading the text in a document. Headings, lists and links were not
recognized in the document at all, as of v12 this is no longer the
case, though I cannot speak to specifically how good the support is,
if you send me a form you have in mind I can test it with Hal v12).
I tested pdf with Orca, it did absolutely nothing (this is something I
did last summer, I can dig up precise software and version details),
did not even read the text in the pdf document I tested (I tested with
Milestone mp3 player user guide from Bones, accessible pdf document,
and a static pdf form, I can send you the document off list if you
want).
VoiceOver did basically just as badly.
That was on a MacMini, OSX, I think 10.6, whatever was the latest
available version in July 2010.
We do this screen reader comparison tests now annually and I will give
a presentation on the set up and results at this year's CSUN
conference.
After that I will send the full report out and would appreciate any
feedback or comments.
There may easily be mistakes there, especially in the open source
field where one pdf reader could perform a lot better than another, or
some secret settings have to be configured to drastically improve
access.
Cheers
-B
On 1/26/11, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I know that PDF forms when built properly are well supported using NVDA and
> JFW. Even dynamic forms are now well supported in current releases of those
> screen readers.
>
> How well are they supported with other screen readers such as Apple's
> VoiceOver, Dolphin's HAL/SuperNova, GW Micro's Window Eyes or Orca? Does
> anyone have a matrix that lists what is supported by which versions? I am
> particularly interested in dynamic feature support such as branching logic
> and expandable text fields.
>
> Mike Moore
>
>
From: John E Brandt
Date: Wed, Jan 26 2011 2:36PM
Subject: Re: Screen reader support for PDF forms
← Previous message | Next message →
Birkir,
Curious, what did you use to read PDF forms on the Mac OS with VoiceOver?
As I recall - and this was several years ago - the free Adobe Acrobat Reader
(probably version 9) did not work with VoiceOver. In fairness, this was true
of many/most non-native applications (and even a bunch of Apple's own
applications) The only way to simply read a PDF on the Mac was with Preview.
But I'm fairly certain that it reads the content as simple text and not as
tagged content. This might explain why you had poor results with PDF forms.
I know that there is a new Adobe Acrobat Reader (version X) but I have not
downloaded it. So I don't know if it works with VoiceOver.
Has anyone tried Acrobat Reader X on the Mac with VoiceOVer? Andrew, any
word on how Acrobat Reader X works with VoiceOver?
John E. Brandt
www.jebswebs.com
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
207-622-7937
Augusta, Maine, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Birkir Rúnar
Gunnarsson
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 3:33 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Screen reader support for PDF forms
Mike
Before Hal v12 there was no pdf form support (no pdf support except reading
the text in a document. Headings, lists and links were not recognized in the
document at all, as of v12 this is no longer the case, though I cannot speak
to specifically how good the support is, if you send me a form you have in
mind I can test it with Hal v12).
I tested pdf with Orca, it did absolutely nothing (this is something I did
last summer, I can dig up precise software and version details), did not
even read the text in the pdf document I tested (I tested with Milestone mp3
player user guide from Bones, accessible pdf document, and a static pdf
form, I can send you the document off list if you want).
VoiceOver did basically just as badly.
That was on a MacMini, OSX, I think 10.6, whatever was the latest available
version in July 2010.
We do this screen reader comparison tests now annually and I will give a
presentation on the set up and results at this year's CSUN conference.
After that I will send the full report out and would appreciate any feedback
or comments.
There may easily be mistakes there, especially in the open source field
where one pdf reader could perform a lot better than another, or some secret
settings have to be configured to drastically improve access.
Cheers
-B
On 1/26/11, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I know that PDF forms when built properly are well supported using
> NVDA and JFW. Even dynamic forms are now well supported in current
> releases of those screen readers.
>
> How well are they supported with other screen readers such as Apple's
> VoiceOver, Dolphin's HAL/SuperNova, GW Micro's Window Eyes or Orca?
> Does anyone have a matrix that lists what is supported by which
> versions? I am particularly interested in dynamic feature support such
> as branching logic and expandable text fields.
>
> Mike Moore
>
>
From: Andrew Kirkpatrick
Date: Wed, Jan 26 2011 4:57PM
Subject: Re: Screen reader support for PDF forms
← Previous message | Next message →
John,
Support for accessibility via the accessibility API is essentially for Windows alone with Reader presently.
Thanks,
AWK
Andrew Kirkpatrick
Group Product Manager, Accessibility
Adobe Systems
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://twitter.com/awkawk
http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of John E Brandt
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 4:35 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Screen reader support for PDF forms
Birkir,
Curious, what did you use to read PDF forms on the Mac OS with VoiceOver?
As I recall - and this was several years ago - the free Adobe Acrobat Reader
(probably version 9) did not work with VoiceOver. In fairness, this was true
of many/most non-native applications (and even a bunch of Apple's own
applications) The only way to simply read a PDF on the Mac was with Preview.
But I'm fairly certain that it reads the content as simple text and not as
tagged content. This might explain why you had poor results with PDF forms.
I know that there is a new Adobe Acrobat Reader (version X) but I have not
downloaded it. So I don't know if it works with VoiceOver.
Has anyone tried Acrobat Reader X on the Mac with VoiceOVer? Andrew, any
word on how Acrobat Reader X works with VoiceOver?
John E. Brandt
www.jebswebs.com
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
207-622-7937
Augusta, Maine, USA
-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Birkir Rúnar
Gunnarsson
Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 3:33 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Screen reader support for PDF forms
Mike
Before Hal v12 there was no pdf form support (no pdf support except reading
the text in a document. Headings, lists and links were not recognized in the
document at all, as of v12 this is no longer the case, though I cannot speak
to specifically how good the support is, if you send me a form you have in
mind I can test it with Hal v12).
I tested pdf with Orca, it did absolutely nothing (this is something I did
last summer, I can dig up precise software and version details), did not
even read the text in the pdf document I tested (I tested with Milestone mp3
player user guide from Bones, accessible pdf document, and a static pdf
form, I can send you the document off list if you want).
VoiceOver did basically just as badly.
That was on a MacMini, OSX, I think 10.6, whatever was the latest available
version in July 2010.
We do this screen reader comparison tests now annually and I will give a
presentation on the set up and results at this year's CSUN conference.
After that I will send the full report out and would appreciate any feedback
or comments.
There may easily be mistakes there, especially in the open source field
where one pdf reader could perform a lot better than another, or some secret
settings have to be configured to drastically improve access.
Cheers
-B
On 1/26/11, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I know that PDF forms when built properly are well supported using
> NVDA and JFW. Even dynamic forms are now well supported in current
> releases of those screen readers.
>
> How well are they supported with other screen readers such as Apple's
> VoiceOver, Dolphin's HAL/SuperNova, GW Micro's Window Eyes or Orca?
> Does anyone have a matrix that lists what is supported by which
> versions? I am particularly interested in dynamic feature support such
> as branching logic and expandable text fields.
>
> Mike Moore
>
>
From: Birkir Rúnar Gunnarsson
Date: Wed, Jan 26 2011 5:51PM
Subject: Re: Screen reader support for PDF forms
← Previous message | No next message
Andrew
Is that because of lack of accessible interface support on non-Windows
platforms, or is it because screen readers on other platforms have not
taken advantage of existing accessibility interfaces or APIs?
I actually got the pdf reader on OSX to read documents just fine, not
any special marked up text (links, lists, headings) but it could read
just the plain text.
Tomorrow I will post specific apps I tried it with, my colleague
actually ran those two tests and I want to confirm with him to have
the precise name and version along with the O.S. tested.
Thanks
-Birkir
On 1/26/11, Andrew Kirkpatrick < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> John,
> Support for accessibility via the accessibility API is essentially for
> Windows alone with Reader presently.
>
> Thanks,
> AWK
>
> Andrew Kirkpatrick
> Group Product Manager, Accessibility
> Adobe Systems
>
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> http://twitter.com/awkawk
> http://blogs.adobe.com/accessibility
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of John E Brandt
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 4:35 PM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Screen reader support for PDF forms
>
> Birkir,
>
> Curious, what did you use to read PDF forms on the Mac OS with VoiceOver?
>
> As I recall - and this was several years ago - the free Adobe Acrobat Reader
> (probably version 9) did not work with VoiceOver. In fairness, this was true
> of many/most non-native applications (and even a bunch of Apple's own
> applications) The only way to simply read a PDF on the Mac was with Preview.
> But I'm fairly certain that it reads the content as simple text and not as
> tagged content. This might explain why you had poor results with PDF forms.
>
> I know that there is a new Adobe Acrobat Reader (version X) but I have not
> downloaded it. So I don't know if it works with VoiceOver.
>
> Has anyone tried Acrobat Reader X on the Mac with VoiceOVer? Andrew, any
> word on how Acrobat Reader X works with VoiceOver?
>
> John E. Brandt
> www.jebswebs.com
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> 207-622-7937
> Augusta, Maine, USA
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Birkir Rúnar
> Gunnarsson
> Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 3:33 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Screen reader support for PDF forms
>
> Mike
>
> Before Hal v12 there was no pdf form support (no pdf support except reading
> the text in a document. Headings, lists and links were not recognized in the
> document at all, as of v12 this is no longer the case, though I cannot speak
> to specifically how good the support is, if you send me a form you have in
> mind I can test it with Hal v12).
> I tested pdf with Orca, it did absolutely nothing (this is something I did
> last summer, I can dig up precise software and version details), did not
> even read the text in the pdf document I tested (I tested with Milestone mp3
> player user guide from Bones, accessible pdf document, and a static pdf
> form, I can send you the document off list if you want).
> VoiceOver did basically just as badly.
> That was on a MacMini, OSX, I think 10.6, whatever was the latest available
> version in July 2010.
> We do this screen reader comparison tests now annually and I will give a
> presentation on the set up and results at this year's CSUN conference.
> After that I will send the full report out and would appreciate any feedback
> or comments.
> There may easily be mistakes there, especially in the open source field
> where one pdf reader could perform a lot better than another, or some secret
> settings have to be configured to drastically improve access.
> Cheers
> -B
>
> On 1/26/11, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> I know that PDF forms when built properly are well supported using
>> NVDA and JFW. Even dynamic forms are now well supported in current
>> releases of those screen readers.
>>
>> How well are they supported with other screen readers such as Apple's
>> VoiceOver, Dolphin's HAL/SuperNova, GW Micro's Window Eyes or Orca?
>> Does anyone have a matrix that lists what is supported by which
>> versions? I am particularly interested in dynamic feature support such
>> as branching logic and expandable text fields.
>>
>> Mike Moore
>>
>>