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Thread: Question: inlne headings

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Number of posts in this thread: 11 (In chronological order)

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Fri, Aug 16 2013 10:44PM
Subject: Question: inlne headings
No previous message | Next message →

My government clients use a visual design technique called inline headings
or run-in heads. I'm trying to develop a way to make them accessible.

Sample of 2 paragraphs in the original format follows. The first word of
each paragraph is visually formatted to stand out, either with bold,
italics, or color.

Objective-This report presents national estimates of blue widgets

Methods-Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.



I think they should be formatted as headings, H2, but because the words
"objective" and "methods" are part of a larger paragraph of body text, they
can't be formatted as headings. Headings are formatted for the entire
paragraph, not a partial paragraph.

Is there any tag that's appropriate for these "mini headings" at the
beginning of a paragraph of body text?



Another option is to split them into a heading paragraph and a body text
paragraph, but this is counter to US federal publishing guidelines. Sample
of this method (with the tags) follows:

<H2> Objective

<P> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.

<H2> Methods

<P> Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.



Your thoughts?

- Bevi Chagnon

PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.

Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
Accessibility.

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Sat, Aug 17 2013 1:00AM
Subject: Re: Question: inlne headings
← Previous message | Next message →

Perhaps enclosing them in a container and making them inline?

<style>
.runin h2 { font-size: 1em; }
.runin h2, .runin p { display:inline; }
.runin h2::after { content:" - "; }
.runin { padding-bottom: 1em;}
</style>

<div class="runin"><h2>Objective</h2>
<p> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.</p>
</div>
<div class="runin">
<h2>Methods</h2>
<p>Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.</p>
</div>

P

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Sat, Aug 17 2013 10:48AM
Subject: Re: Question: inlne headings
← Previous message | Next message →

Thanks, Patarick. That looks like it would work in HTML and eventually in EPUB3 (which is based on HTML5 and CSS).

In this case, these publications are designed in Adobe InDesign and converted to PDF where <DIV>, .classes, and CSS controls are not available.

So it looks like the InDesign layout won't be able to format and convert an inline head for the PDF.

— Bevi

— PubCom.com — Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.

From: Olaf Drümmer
Date: Mon, Aug 19 2013 6:39AM
Subject: Re: Question: inlne headings
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Bevi,

in InDesign it will require some annoying manual work but can be done - one example:
put the run -in heading in its own text frame (can be part of the complete text chain), put that text frame on top of the text frame containing the continuation, make the text in that frame wrap around the frame used for the run-in heading; adjust the size of the small text frame containing the run=in heading to the proper size.

Disclaimer: this proposal is not elegant! ;-)

Maybe once Adobe takes their multi-channel publishing starting from InDesign beyond tablet centric fixed layout thinking, we can hope for advanced style sheet options, where a paragraph does not have to start on a new line…. (but just continue where the previous paragraph stopped)

Olaf


Am 17 Aug 2013 um 18:48 schrieb Chagnon | PubCom < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:

> Thanks, Patarick. That looks like it would work in HTML and eventually in EPUB3 (which is based on HTML5 and CSS).
>
> In this case, these publications are designed in Adobe InDesign and converted to PDF where <DIV>, .classes, and CSS controls are not available.
>
> So it looks like the InDesign layout won't be able to format and convert an inline head for the PDF.
>
> — Bevi
>
> — PubCom.com — Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
> — Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508 Accessibility.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
> Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 3:00 AM
> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question: inlne headings
>
> Perhaps enclosing them in a container and making them inline?
>
> <style>
> .runin h2 { font-size: 1em; }
> .runin h2, .runin p { display:inline; }
> .runin h2::after { content:" - "; }
> .runin { padding-bottom: 1em;}
> </style>
>
> <div class="runin"><h2>Objective</h2>
> <p> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.</p> </div> <div class="runin"> <h2>Methods</h2> <p>Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.</p> </div>
>
> P
>
> On 17/08/2013 05:44, Chagnon | PubCom wrote:
>> My government clients use a visual design technique called inline
>> headings or run-in heads. I'm trying to develop a way to make them accessible.
>>
>> Sample of 2 paragraphs in the original format follows. The first word
>> of each paragraph is visually formatted to stand out, either with
>> bold, italics, or color.
>>
>> Objective-This report presents national estimates of blue widgets
>>
>> Methods-Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think they should be formatted as headings, H2, but because the
>> words "objective" and "methods" are part of a larger paragraph of body
>> text, they can't be formatted as headings. Headings are formatted for
>> the entire paragraph, not a partial paragraph.
>>
>> Is there any tag that's appropriate for these "mini headings" at the
>> beginning of a paragraph of body text?
>>
>>
>>
>> Another option is to split them into a heading paragraph and a body
>> text paragraph, but this is counter to US federal publishing
>> guidelines. Sample of this method (with the tags) follows:
>>
>> <H2> Objective
>>
>> <P> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.
>>
>> <H2> Methods
>>
>> <P> Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>>
>> - Bevi Chagnon
>>
>> PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
>>
>> Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
>> Accessibility.
>>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>
>
>
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
> > re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
>
> www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ > twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke > > >
> > >

From: Jonathan Metz
Date: Mon, Aug 19 2013 7:22AM
Subject: Re: Question: inlne headings
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Bevi,

Olaf¹s suggestion works, but is waaaay time consuming. I¹ve run into those
before (a lot, actually, for our client). I handle inline headings just as
you proposed, but splitting them up in Acrobat. It¹s way easier than
trying to get InDesign to work the way you want it to.

So, a long explanation would be to just select the text ³This report
presents national estimates of blue widgets² and create tag from selection
in Acrobat, giving it a P tag. Change the tag to Hn for Objective.


HTH
Jonathan





On 8/19/13 8:39 AM, "Olaf Drümmer" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

>Hi Bevi,
>
>in InDesign it will require some annoying manual work but can be done -
>one example:
>put the run -in heading in its own text frame (can be part of the
>complete text chain), put that text frame on top of the text frame
>containing the continuation, make the text in that frame wrap around the
>frame used for the run-in heading; adjust the size of the small text
>frame containing the run=in heading to the proper size.
>
>Disclaimer: this proposal is not elegant! ;-)
>
>Maybe once Adobe takes their multi-channel publishing starting from
>InDesign beyond tablet centric fixed layout thinking, we can hope for
>advanced style sheet options, where a paragraph does not have to start on
>a new lineŠ. (but just continue where the previous paragraph stopped)
>
>Olaf
>
>
>Am 17 Aug 2013 um 18:48 schrieb Chagnon | PubCom < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:
>
>> Thanks, Patarick. That looks like it would work in HTML and eventually
>>in EPUB3 (which is based on HTML5 and CSS).
>>
>> In this case, these publications are designed in Adobe InDesign and
>>converted to PDF where <DIV>, .classes, and CSS controls are not
>>available.
>>
>> So it looks like the InDesign layout won't be able to format and
>>convert an inline head for the PDF.
>>
>> ‹ Bevi
>>
>> ‹ PubCom.com ‹ Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
>> ‹ Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
>>Accessibility.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Patrick H.
>>Lauke
>> Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 3:00 AM
>> To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question: inlne headings
>>
>> Perhaps enclosing them in a container and making them inline?
>>
>> <style>
>> .runin h2 { font-size: 1em; }
>> .runin h2, .runin p { display:inline; }
>> .runin h2::after { content:" - "; }
>> .runin { padding-bottom: 1em;}
>> </style>
>>
>> <div class="runin"><h2>Objective</h2>
>> <p> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.</p> </div>
>><div class="runin"> <h2>Methods</h2> <p>Estimates are based on data
>>collected during 2012.</p> </div>
>>
>> P
>>
>> On 17/08/2013 05:44, Chagnon | PubCom wrote:
>>> My government clients use a visual design technique called inline
>>> headings or run-in heads. I'm trying to develop a way to make them
>>>accessible.
>>>
>>> Sample of 2 paragraphs in the original format follows. The first word
>>> of each paragraph is visually formatted to stand out, either with
>>> bold, italics, or color.
>>>
>>> Objective-This report presents national estimates of blue widgets
>>>
>>> Methods-Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I think they should be formatted as headings, H2, but because the
>>> words "objective" and "methods" are part of a larger paragraph of body
>>> text, they can't be formatted as headings. Headings are formatted for
>>> the entire paragraph, not a partial paragraph.
>>>
>>> Is there any tag that's appropriate for these "mini headings" at the
>>> beginning of a paragraph of body text?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Another option is to split them into a heading paragraph and a body
>>> text paragraph, but this is counter to US federal publishing
>>> guidelines. Sample of this method (with the tags) follows:
>>>
>>> <H2> Objective
>>>
>>> <P> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.
>>>
>>> <H2> Methods
>>>
>>> <P> Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Your thoughts?
>>>
>>> - Bevi Chagnon
>>>
>>> PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
>>>
>>> Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
>>> Accessibility.
>>>
>>> >>> >>> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Patrick H. Lauke
>> >> re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin :
>>re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
>>
>> www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
>>http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/
>>>> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>>>> >> >>messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>
>> >> >> >
>>>

From: Judith.A.Blankman@wellsfargo.com
Date: Mon, Aug 19 2013 12:55PM
Subject: Re: Question: inlne headings
← Previous message | Next message →

If there are no other headers grouping this information, I would explain the Accessibility implications to the designer and then ask that they reconsider their layout, particularly since this is for a document and not a web page.

Depending on whether the appreciate the importance of delivering an accessible document, that may be all the convincing you need. Otherwise, this is a larger teaching moment.

Best,


Judith Blankman

Interaction Designer
Customer Experience

Wells Fargo Digital Channels Group | 550 California Street, 2nd floor | San Francisco, CA 94104
MAC A0122-020
Tel 415-947-6583 | Cell 415-601-1114 | Fax 415-975-7452

= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Chagnon | PubCom [ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 9:48 AM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question: inlne headings

Thanks, Patarick. That looks like it would work in HTML and eventually in EPUB3 (which is based on HTML5 and CSS).

In this case, these publications are designed in Adobe InDesign and converted to PDF where <DIV>, .classes, and CSS controls are not available.

So it looks like the InDesign layout won't be able to format and convert an inline head for the PDF.

— Bevi

— PubCom.com — Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
— Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508 Accessibility.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Patrick H. Lauke
Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 3:00 AM
To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question: inlne headings

Perhaps enclosing them in a container and making them inline?

<style>
.runin h2 { font-size: 1em; }
.runin h2, .runin p { display:inline; }
.runin h2::after { content:" - "; }
.runin { padding-bottom: 1em;}
</style>

<div class="runin"><h2>Objective</h2>
<p> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.</p> </div> <div class="runin"> <h2>Methods</h2> <p>Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.</p> </div>

P

On 17/08/2013 05:44, Chagnon | PubCom wrote:
> My government clients use a visual design technique called inline
> headings or run-in heads. I'm trying to develop a way to make them accessible.
>
> Sample of 2 paragraphs in the original format follows. The first word
> of each paragraph is visually formatted to stand out, either with
> bold, italics, or color.
>
> Objective-This report presents national estimates of blue widgets
>
> Methods-Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.
>
>
>
> I think they should be formatted as headings, H2, but because the
> words "objective" and "methods" are part of a larger paragraph of body
> text, they can't be formatted as headings. Headings are formatted for
> the entire paragraph, not a partial paragraph.
>
> Is there any tag that's appropriate for these "mini headings" at the
> beginning of a paragraph of body text?
>
>
>
> Another option is to split them into a heading paragraph and a body
> text paragraph, but this is counter to US federal publishing
> guidelines. Sample of this method (with the tags) follows:
>
> <H2> Objective
>
> <P> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.
>
> <H2> Methods
>
> <P> Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.
>
>
>
> Your thoughts?
>
> - Bevi Chagnon
>
> PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
>
> Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
> Accessibility.
>
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>


--
Patrick H. Lauke
re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]

www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Jonathan Metz
Date: Mon, Aug 19 2013 1:07PM
Subject: Re: Question: inlne headings
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Judith,

I¹m a little confused by your comment. Are you saying that the only proper
way for headings to exist is on their own line and Bevi should tell her
designer that? What ³accessibility implications² are there for having
Headings not appear on their own line? What difference would headings make
in a document versus a web page?

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

Jon


On 8/19/13 2:55 PM, " = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

>If there are no other headers grouping this information, I would explain
>the Accessibility implications to the designer and then ask that they
>reconsider their layout, particularly since this is for a document and
>not a web page.
>
>Depending on whether the appreciate the importance of delivering an
>accessible document, that may be all the convincing you need. Otherwise,
>this is a larger teaching moment.
>
>Best,
>
>
>Judith Blankman
>
>Interaction Designer
>Customer Experience
>
>Wells Fargo Digital Channels Group | 550 California Street, 2nd floor |
> San Francisco, CA 94104
>MAC A0122-020
>Tel 415-947-6583 | Cell 415-601-1114 | Fax 415-975-7452
>
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>[ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Chagnon | PubCom
>[ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
>Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 9:48 AM
>To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question: inlne headings
>
>Thanks, Patarick. That looks like it would work in HTML and eventually in
>EPUB3 (which is based on HTML5 and CSS).
>
>In this case, these publications are designed in Adobe InDesign and
>converted to PDF where <DIV>, .classes, and CSS controls are not
>available.
>
>So it looks like the InDesign layout won't be able to format and convert
>an inline head for the PDF.
>
>‹ Bevi
>
>‹ PubCom.com ‹ Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
>‹ Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
>Accessibility.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Patrick H.
>Lauke
>Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 3:00 AM
>To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question: inlne headings
>
>Perhaps enclosing them in a container and making them inline?
>
><style>
>.runin h2 { font-size: 1em; }
>.runin h2, .runin p { display:inline; }
>.runin h2::after { content:" - "; }
>.runin { padding-bottom: 1em;}
></style>
>
><div class="runin"><h2>Objective</h2>
><p> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.</p> </div>
><div class="runin"> <h2>Methods</h2> <p>Estimates are based on data
>collected during 2012.</p> </div>
>
>P
>
>On 17/08/2013 05:44, Chagnon | PubCom wrote:
>> My government clients use a visual design technique called inline
>> headings or run-in heads. I'm trying to develop a way to make them
>>accessible.
>>
>> Sample of 2 paragraphs in the original format follows. The first word
>> of each paragraph is visually formatted to stand out, either with
>> bold, italics, or color.
>>
>> Objective-This report presents national estimates of blue widgets
>>
>> Methods-Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think they should be formatted as headings, H2, but because the
>> words "objective" and "methods" are part of a larger paragraph of body
>> text, they can't be formatted as headings. Headings are formatted for
>> the entire paragraph, not a partial paragraph.
>>
>> Is there any tag that's appropriate for these "mini headings" at the
>> beginning of a paragraph of body text?
>>
>>
>>
>> Another option is to split them into a heading paragraph and a body
>> text paragraph, but this is counter to US federal publishing
>> guidelines. Sample of this method (with the tags) follows:
>>
>> <H2> Objective
>>
>> <P> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.
>>
>> <H2> Methods
>>
>> <P> Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>>
>> - Bevi Chagnon
>>
>> PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
>>
>> Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
>> Accessibility.
>>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>
>
>
>--
>Patrick H. Lauke
>>re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-,
>re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
>
>www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com
>| http://flickr.com/photos/redux/
>>twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>>>>messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>>>>>>

From: Chagnon | PubCom
Date: Mon, Aug 19 2013 2:21PM
Subject: Re: Question: inlne headings
← Previous message | Next message →

In documents (Word, PDF, InDesign layout files), the tags eventually used by
accessibility technologies are created based on the visual formatting
styles.

Paragraph styles apply the format to the entire paragraph. Character styles,
on the other hand, apply formatting to just what's selected by the cursor,
such as a word or 2 at the beginning of a paragraph as in my example.

I can't tell InDesign to convert a character style to an <H1> tag. The
program can't do that (at least not at this time). Accessibility tags can
only be generated from paragraph styles; therefore, the run-in heading must
be its own separate paragraph in order to have an <h1> tag applied to it by
InDesign. (This confirms Judith's comment.)

We have several technologies that are converging, and sometimes conflicting
with each other.
1. There's the typesetting, word processing, and desktop publishing industry
whose technologies and procedures go back to the 1880s.
2. There's the accessibility community with its procedures developed over
the last 10+ years.
3. And there's HTML which developed 20 years ago but was only standardized
during the last 15 years.

I wish all these players would standardize among themselves!
— Is a heading a separate paragraph or can it be just a few selected words
in a larger paragraph?

— Is the correct tag for lists <L> or <ul>/<ol>?

— Do I bold some text by surrounding it in a <b> tag or a <strong> tag? Or
do I just use the little B button in the top control panel of the software?
Or do I select the bold weight of the font, as in Helvetica Bold? What if I
use an extra-heavy weight of the font like Helvetica Black, is that still
tagged as <strong> or <b>?

These are the great questions of life that I ponder in the wee hours of the
night.

— Bevi Chagnon
— PubCom.com — Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
— Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
Accessibility.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jonathan Metz
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 3:07 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question: inlne headings

Hi Judith,

I¹m a little confused by your comment. Are you saying that the only proper
way for headings to exist is on their own line and Bevi should tell her
designer that? What ³accessibility implications² are there for having
Headings not appear on their own line? What difference would headings make
in a document versus a web page?

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

Jon


On 8/19/13 2:55 PM, " = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

>If there are no other headers grouping this information, I would
>explain the Accessibility implications to the designer and then ask
>that they reconsider their layout, particularly since this is for a
>document and not a web page.
>
>Depending on whether the appreciate the importance of delivering an
>accessible document, that may be all the convincing you need.
>Otherwise, this is a larger teaching moment.
>
>Best,
>
>
>Judith Blankman
>
>Interaction Designer
>Customer Experience
>
>Wells Fargo Digital Channels Group | 550 California Street, 2nd floor
>| San Francisco, CA 94104 MAC A0122-020 Tel 415-947-6583 | Cell
>415-601-1114 | Fax 415-975-7452
>
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>[ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Chagnon | PubCom
>[ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
>Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 9:48 AM
>To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question: inlne headings
>
>Thanks, Patarick. That looks like it would work in HTML and eventually
>in
>EPUB3 (which is based on HTML5 and CSS).
>
>In this case, these publications are designed in Adobe InDesign and
>converted to PDF where <DIV>, .classes, and CSS controls are not
>available.
>
>So it looks like the InDesign layout won't be able to format and
>convert an inline head for the PDF.
>
>‹ Bevi
>
>‹ PubCom.com ‹ Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
>‹ Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
>Accessibility.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Patrick H.
>Lauke
>Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 3:00 AM
>To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question: inlne headings
>
>Perhaps enclosing them in a container and making them inline?
>
><style>
>.runin h2 { font-size: 1em; }
>.runin h2, .runin p { display:inline; } .runin h2::after { content:" -
>"; } .runin { padding-bottom: 1em;} </style>
>
><div class="runin"><h2>Objective</h2>
><p> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.</p> </div>
><div class="runin"> <h2>Methods</h2> <p>Estimates are based on data
>collected during 2012.</p> </div>
>
>P
>
>On 17/08/2013 05:44, Chagnon | PubCom wrote:
>> My government clients use a visual design technique called inline
>>headings or run-in heads. I'm trying to develop a way to make them
>>accessible.
>>
>> Sample of 2 paragraphs in the original format follows. The first word
>> of each paragraph is visually formatted to stand out, either with
>> bold, italics, or color.
>>
>> Objective-This report presents national estimates of blue widgets
>>
>> Methods-Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think they should be formatted as headings, H2, but because the
>> words "objective" and "methods" are part of a larger paragraph of
>> body text, they can't be formatted as headings. Headings are
>> formatted for the entire paragraph, not a partial paragraph.
>>
>> Is there any tag that's appropriate for these "mini headings" at the
>> beginning of a paragraph of body text?
>>
>>
>>
>> Another option is to split them into a heading paragraph and a body
>> text paragraph, but this is counter to US federal publishing
>> guidelines. Sample of this method (with the tags) follows:
>>
>> <H2> Objective
>>
>> <P> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.
>>
>> <H2> Methods
>>
>> <P> Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>>
>> - Bevi Chagnon
>>
>> PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
>>
>> Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
>> Accessibility.
>>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>
>
>
>--
>Patrick H. Lauke
>>re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin :
>re-,
>re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
>
>www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
>http://redux.deviantart.com
>| http://flickr.com/photos/redux/
>>twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>>>>messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>>>messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>>messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: Michael Moore
Date: Wed, Aug 21 2013 9:27AM
Subject: Re: Question: inlne headings
← Previous message | Next message →

Patrick,

Would you consider using a span with a role of heading as an alternative
approach to resolving Bevi's question about in-line headings? I realize
this does not address the issue of what to do with a PDF but would like
your opinion.

<p><span role="heading" aria-level="2">Methods</span>Estimates are based on
data collected during 2012.</p>

Bevi,

For the PDF solution I would adjust the tagging using Acrobat Pro on the
final document. Using the touch up reading order tool, select the text to
be made a heading and tag it as a heading level 2. Select the text to be in
the trailing paragraph and make it a paragraph. I do not know of a solution
to apply in inDesign that would result in the correct original tag
structure.


On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 2:00 AM, Patrick H. Lauke < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> Perhaps enclosing them in a container and making them inline?
>
> <style>
> .runin h2 { font-size: 1em; }
> .runin h2, .runin p { display:inline; }
> .runin h2::after { content:" - "; }
> .runin { padding-bottom: 1em;}
> </style>
>
> <div class="runin"><h2>Objective</h2>
> <p> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.</p>
> </div>
> <div class="runin">
> <h2>Methods</h2>
> <p>Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.</p>
> </div>
>
> P
>
> On 17/08/2013 05:44, Chagnon | PubCom wrote:
> > My government clients use a visual design technique called inline
> headings
> > or run-in heads. I'm trying to develop a way to make them accessible.
> >
> > Sample of 2 paragraphs in the original format follows. The first word of
> > each paragraph is visually formatted to stand out, either with bold,
> > italics, or color.
> >
> > Objective-This report presents national estimates of blue widgets
> >
> > Methods-Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.
> >
> >
> >
> > I think they should be formatted as headings, H2, but because the words
> > "objective" and "methods" are part of a larger paragraph of body text,
> they
> > can't be formatted as headings. Headings are formatted for the entire
> > paragraph, not a partial paragraph.
> >
> > Is there any tag that's appropriate for these "mini headings" at the
> > beginning of a paragraph of body text?
> >
> >
> >
> > Another option is to split them into a heading paragraph and a body text
> > paragraph, but this is counter to US federal publishing guidelines.
> Sample
> > of this method (with the tags) follows:
> >
> > <H2> Objective
> >
> > <P> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.
> >
> > <H2> Methods
> >
> > <P> Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.
> >
> >
> >
> > Your thoughts?
> >
> > - Bevi Chagnon
> >
> > PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
> >
> > Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
> > Accessibility.
> >
> > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
> > re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively
> [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
>
> www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
> http://redux.deviantart.com | http://flickr.com/photos/redux/
> > twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> > > > >

From: Bourne, Sarah (ITD)
Date: Thu, Aug 22 2013 7:15AM
Subject: Re: Question: inlne headings
← Previous message | Next message →

Bevi,

I feel your pain! Many of these boil down to an imperfect separation of presentation and content.

All platforms assume that headings need to not share a line with other chunks of content. Why? Because that's what we've done in print - for visual users - forever. Except some circumstances, such as bulleted (or numbered) lists of text blocks where the heading is immediately followed by text - again, a typographic convention to aid visual users. It seems that we should be able to override this kind of presentation style to accommodate exceptions.

There's been so much debate over so many years about the use of bold and italics. The problem is that we use them for a variety of very different reasons. Some, like calling out words that appear in a glossary (often presented in bold) or indicating a different language (often presented in italics) have mark-up that can be used. Others not so much: calling out the names of people by making them bold, putting the titles of books (as in footnotes and bibliographies) in italics. Yeah, they fit under the umbrella of "emphasis", but there are reasons for the emphasis that cannot be expressed.

Of course, trying to add new tags for every little thing would certainly be paving the road to hell. But it's always struck me as silly to change <b> and <i> to <strong> and <em> just to make them seem semantic, without providing a way to better indicate the reason for the change in typography.

sb
Sarah E. Bourne
Director of Assistive Technology &
Mass.Gov Chief Technology Strategist
Information Technology Division
Commonwealth of Massachusetts
1 Ashburton Pl. rm 1601 Boston MA 02108
617-626-4502
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
http://www.mass.gov/itd


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Chagnon | PubCom
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 4:22 PM
To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question: inlne headings

In documents (Word, PDF, InDesign layout files), the tags eventually used by accessibility technologies are created based on the visual formatting styles.

Paragraph styles apply the format to the entire paragraph. Character styles, on the other hand, apply formatting to just what's selected by the cursor, such as a word or 2 at the beginning of a paragraph as in my example.

I can't tell InDesign to convert a character style to an <H1> tag. The program can't do that (at least not at this time). Accessibility tags can only be generated from paragraph styles; therefore, the run-in heading must be its own separate paragraph in order to have an <h1> tag applied to it by InDesign. (This confirms Judith's comment.)

We have several technologies that are converging, and sometimes conflicting with each other.
1. There's the typesetting, word processing, and desktop publishing industry whose technologies and procedures go back to the 1880s.
2. There's the accessibility community with its procedures developed over the last 10+ years.
3. And there's HTML which developed 20 years ago but was only standardized during the last 15 years.

I wish all these players would standardize among themselves!
- Is a heading a separate paragraph or can it be just a few selected words in a larger paragraph?

- Is the correct tag for lists <L> or <ul>/<ol>?

- Do I bold some text by surrounding it in a <b> tag or a <strong> tag? Or do I just use the little B button in the top control panel of the software?
Or do I select the bold weight of the font, as in Helvetica Bold? What if I use an extra-heavy weight of the font like Helvetica Black, is that still tagged as <strong> or <b>?

These are the great questions of life that I ponder in the wee hours of the night.

- Bevi Chagnon
- PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
- Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508 Accessibility.

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jonathan Metz
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 3:07 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question: inlne headings

Hi Judith,

I¹m a little confused by your comment. Are you saying that the only proper way for headings to exist is on their own line and Bevi should tell her designer that? What ³accessibility implications² are there for having Headings not appear on their own line? What difference would headings make in a document versus a web page?

Thanks in advance for the clarification.

Jon


On 8/19/13 2:55 PM, " = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = "
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

>If there are no other headers grouping this information, I would
>explain the Accessibility implications to the designer and then ask
>that they reconsider their layout, particularly since this is for a
>document and not a web page.
>
>Depending on whether the appreciate the importance of delivering an
>accessible document, that may be all the convincing you need.
>Otherwise, this is a larger teaching moment.
>
>Best,
>
>
>Judith Blankman
>
>Interaction Designer
>Customer Experience
>
>Wells Fargo Digital Channels Group | 550 California Street, 2nd floor
>| San Francisco, CA 94104 MAC A0122-020 Tel 415-947-6583 | Cell
>415-601-1114 | Fax 415-975-7452
>
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>[ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Chagnon | PubCom
>[ = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ]
>Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 9:48 AM
>To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question: inlne headings
>
>Thanks, Patarick. That looks like it would work in HTML and eventually
>in
>EPUB3 (which is based on HTML5 and CSS).
>
>In this case, these publications are designed in Adobe InDesign and
>converted to PDF where <DIV>, .classes, and CSS controls are not
>available.
>
>So it looks like the InDesign layout won't be able to format and
>convert an inline head for the PDF.
>
>< Bevi
>
>< PubCom.com < Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
>< Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
>Accessibility.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Patrick H.
>Lauke
>Sent: Saturday, August 17, 2013 3:00 AM
>To: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Question: inlne headings
>
>Perhaps enclosing them in a container and making them inline?
>
><style>
>.runin h2 { font-size: 1em; }
>.runin h2, .runin p { display:inline; } .runin h2::after { content:" -
>"; } .runin { padding-bottom: 1em;} </style>
>
><div class="runin"><h2>Objective</h2>
><p> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.</p> </div>
><div class="runin"> <h2>Methods</h2> <p>Estimates are based on data
>collected during 2012.</p> </div>
>
>P
>
>On 17/08/2013 05:44, Chagnon | PubCom wrote:
>> My government clients use a visual design technique called inline
>>headings or run-in heads. I'm trying to develop a way to make them
>>accessible.
>>
>> Sample of 2 paragraphs in the original format follows. The first word
>> of each paragraph is visually formatted to stand out, either with
>> bold, italics, or color.
>>
>> Objective-This report presents national estimates of blue widgets
>>
>> Methods-Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.
>>
>>
>>
>> I think they should be formatted as headings, H2, but because the
>> words "objective" and "methods" are part of a larger paragraph of
>> body text, they can't be formatted as headings. Headings are
>> formatted for the entire paragraph, not a partial paragraph.
>>
>> Is there any tag that's appropriate for these "mini headings" at the
>> beginning of a paragraph of body text?
>>
>>
>>
>> Another option is to split them into a heading paragraph and a body
>> text paragraph, but this is counter to US federal publishing
>> guidelines. Sample of this method (with the tags) follows:
>>
>> <H2> Objective
>>
>> <P> This report presents national estimates of blue widgets.
>>
>> <H2> Methods
>>
>> <P> Estimates are based on data collected during 2012.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your thoughts?
>>
>> - Bevi Chagnon
>>
>> PubCom.com - Trainers, Consultants, Designers, and Developers.
>>
>> Print, Web, Acrobat, XML, eBooks, and U.S. Federal Section 508
>> Accessibility.
>>
>> >> >> list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>
>
>
>--
>Patrick H. Lauke
>>re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin :
>re-,
>re- + dux, leader; see duke.]
>
>www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk
>http://redux.deviantart.com
>| http://flickr.com/photos/redux/
>>twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
>>>>messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>>>messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>>>messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: Olaf Drümmer
Date: Thu, Aug 22 2013 7:44AM
Subject: Re: Question: inlne headings
← Previous message | No next message

Hi Sarah,

Am 22 Aug 2013 um 15:15 schrieb "Bourne, Sarah (ITD)" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >:

> But it's always struck me as silly to change <b> and <i> to <strong> and <em> just to make them seem semantic, without providing a way to better indicate the reason for the change in typography.

- bolding and italicising can be used without implying the text is "stronger" or more "emphasised" than other text. So from my point of view, having the option to use <em> and <strong> independent of <b> and <i> is useful

- most people when they write text do not have really any specifics in mind when making text stand out from context; as most of the time there is no specificity to an author's intent it would be misguided to require more specificity in the semantic tagging of the text; a sighted user will realise "ooh - this piece of text stands out somehow - it must be somehow more important/interesting/relevant than other text around it". The regard in which it stands out will most of the time be determined from context. By default, as being non-sighted or print-diabled does not imply lack of intelligence, a non-sighted or print-disabled user can just as well take context into account

- thus, in principle, nothing wrong with em and strong as far as I can tell….

Just my 2 cents…

Olaf