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Thread: Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics

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Number of posts in this thread: 10 (In chronological order)

From: Ravindra Kumar Jain
Date: Fri, Feb 21 2014 1:04AM
Subject: Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics
No previous message | Next message →

HI all,
I have gone through sites to search if their is a definite way to track if
the person using Assistive Technology like screen reader can be
tracked using Google Analytics or any other way. Also gone through
this previous discussion @ webaim

http://webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread?thread=5259
and Stackoverflow

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18190572/using-javascript-how-can-you-track-if-a-website-visitor-is-using-a-screen-reade

But till now mostly the answer is negative , as said in the above
posts that assistive technology like Screen Reader is a totally
different program altogether.
My question is this

"Can't Companies like Google (Analytics) and Screen Reader
manufacturers like Freedom Scientific (JAWS), Apple (voiceover),
nvaccess (nvda) and
Accessibility Api's Specialist like Microsoft (msaa), Linux (ATK) ,
and Apple ( Mac OS X Accessibility Protocol) come up with a solution
for tracking persons using screen readers with analytics ? "
Is it so difficult ? Is their already some work going on in this direction ?
Can't the Screen Reader manufacturers embed a code in the users system
for installing a plugin after running setup to track persons using
AT's like screen readers with google analytics?
I am sure this will definitely help a lot for everyone.

Thanks ,

Ravindra Kumar Jain
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =

From: Karl Groves
Date: Fri, Feb 21 2014 6:51AM
Subject: Re: Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics
← Previous message | Next message →

This topic comes up occasionally and the general consensus is basically
"why can't people just make their sites accessible?"

Here's a post I wrote on the subject:
http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/13/can-we-track-how-many-users-with-disabilities-access-our-site/in
which I say:

"Finally, there’s the question of ethics surrounding detecting users with
disabilities. Persons with disabilities are a protected class according to
ADA and similar anti-discrimination laws worldwide. Users may be highly
resistant to having their disabilities identified as they go throughout the
web. Most persons with disabilities would really just rather that *the Web
just work* for them. "


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:04 AM, Ravindra Kumar Jain
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> HI all,
> I have gone through sites to search if their is a definite way to track if
> the person using Assistive Technology like screen reader can be
> tracked using Google Analytics or any other way. Also gone through
> this previous discussion @ webaim
>
> http://webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread?threadR59
> and Stackoverflow
>
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18190572/using-javascript-how-can-you-track-if-a-website-visitor-is-using-a-screen-reade
>
> But till now mostly the answer is negative , as said in the above
> posts that assistive technology like Screen Reader is a totally
> different program altogether.
> My question is this
>
> "Can't Companies like Google (Analytics) and Screen Reader
> manufacturers like Freedom Scientific (JAWS), Apple (voiceover),
> nvaccess (nvda) and
> Accessibility Api's Specialist like Microsoft (msaa), Linux (ATK) ,
> and Apple ( Mac OS X Accessibility Protocol) come up with a solution
> for tracking persons using screen readers with analytics ? "
> Is it so difficult ? Is their already some work going on in this direction
> ?
> Can't the Screen Reader manufacturers embed a code in the users system
> for installing a plugin after running setup to track persons using
> AT's like screen readers with google analytics?
> I am sure this will definitely help a lot for everyone.
>
> Thanks ,
>
> Ravindra Kumar Jain
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > >



--

Karl Groves
www.karlgroves.com
@karlgroves
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
Phone: +1 410.541.6829

From: Olaf Drümmer
Date: Fri, Feb 21 2014 6:57AM
Subject: Re: Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics
← Previous message | Next message →

This link will actually work:
http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/13/can-we-track-how-many-users-with-disabilities-access-our-site/
;-)

Olaf

On 21 Feb 2014, at 14:51, Karl Groves < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Here's a post I wrote on the subject:
> http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/13/can-we-track-how-many-users-with-disabilities-access-our-site/in
> which I say:

From: Clark, Michelle - NRCS, Washington, DC
Date: Fri, Feb 21 2014 7:00AM
Subject: Re: Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & GoogleAnalytics
← Previous message | Next message →

I agree. It is similar to making sure there is a wheelchair ramp and the door is whide enough for the chair to enter. The law says it should be that way and should be the end of it.

Michelle

Michelle

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Karl Groves
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:52 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Cc: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics

This topic comes up occasionally and the general consensus is basically
"why can't people just make their sites accessible?"

Here's a post I wrote on the subject:
http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/13/can-we-track-how-many-users-with-disabilities-access-our-site/in
which I say:

"Finally, there’s the question of ethics surrounding detecting users with
disabilities. Persons with disabilities are a protected class according to
ADA and similar anti-discrimination laws worldwide. Users may be highly
resistant to having their disabilities identified as they go throughout the
web. Most persons with disabilities would really just rather that *the Web
just work* for them. "


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:04 AM, Ravindra Kumar Jain
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> HI all,
> I have gone through sites to search if their is a definite way to track if
> the person using Assistive Technology like screen reader can be
> tracked using Google Analytics or any other way. Also gone through
> this previous discussion @ webaim
>
> http://webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread?threadR59
> and Stackoverflow
>
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18190572/using-javascript-how-can-you-track-if-a-website-visitor-is-using-a-screen-reade
>
> But till now mostly the answer is negative , as said in the above
> posts that assistive technology like Screen Reader is a totally
> different program altogether.
> My question is this
>
> "Can't Companies like Google (Analytics) and Screen Reader
> manufacturers like Freedom Scientific (JAWS), Apple (voiceover),
> nvaccess (nvda) and
> Accessibility Api's Specialist like Microsoft (msaa), Linux (ATK) ,
> and Apple ( Mac OS X Accessibility Protocol) come up with a solution
> for tracking persons using screen readers with analytics ? "
> Is it so difficult ? Is their already some work going on in this direction
> ?
> Can't the Screen Reader manufacturers embed a code in the users system
> for installing a plugin after running setup to track persons using
> AT's like screen readers with google analytics?
> I am sure this will definitely help a lot for everyone.
>
> Thanks ,
>
> Ravindra Kumar Jain
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > >



--

Karl Groves
www.karlgroves.com
@karlgroves
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
Phone: +1 410.541.6829
This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately.

From: Greg Gamble
Date: Fri, Feb 21 2014 8:34AM
Subject: Re: Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers &GoogleAnalytics
← Previous message | Next message →

Well, how do they now a wheelchair can access it then? I'd think they (people with disabilities), would care less if they are tracked. So long as they are not singled out and the information is used correctly, why would they? And how would those who are trying to make things, "just work", do that if they didn't know what to make work or what did work?

I'm not an expert on this, but I have an acquaintances that uses AT and she could care less on how things are made, so long as it works for her. So identifying and tracking those individuals makes sense to me ... so long as it's not used in a discriminatory way. IMO

Greg


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Clark, Michelle - NRCS, Washington, DC
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 6:01 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics

I agree. It is similar to making sure there is a wheelchair ramp and the door is whide enough for the chair to enter. The law says it should be that way and should be the end of it.

Michelle

Michelle

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Karl Groves
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:52 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Cc: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics

This topic comes up occasionally and the general consensus is basically "why can't people just make their sites accessible?"

Here's a post I wrote on the subject:
http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/13/can-we-track-how-many-users-with-disabilities-access-our-site/in
which I say:

"Finally, there’s the question of ethics surrounding detecting users with disabilities. Persons with disabilities are a protected class according to ADA and similar anti-discrimination laws worldwide. Users may be highly resistant to having their disabilities identified as they go throughout the web. Most persons with disabilities would really just rather that *the Web just work* for them. "


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:04 AM, Ravindra Kumar Jain
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> HI all,
> I have gone through sites to search if their is a definite way to
> track if the person using Assistive Technology like screen reader can
> be tracked using Google Analytics or any other way. Also gone through
> this previous discussion @ webaim
>
> http://webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread?threadR59
> and Stackoverflow
>
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18190572/using-javascript-how-can-y
> ou-track-if-a-website-visitor-is-using-a-screen-reade
>
> But till now mostly the answer is negative , as said in the above
> posts that assistive technology like Screen Reader is a totally
> different program altogether.
> My question is this
>
> "Can't Companies like Google (Analytics) and Screen Reader
> manufacturers like Freedom Scientific (JAWS), Apple (voiceover),
> nvaccess (nvda) and Accessibility Api's Specialist like Microsoft
> (msaa), Linux (ATK) , and Apple ( Mac OS X Accessibility Protocol)
> come up with a solution for tracking persons using screen readers with
> analytics ? "
> Is it so difficult ? Is their already some work going on in this
> direction ?
> Can't the Screen Reader manufacturers embed a code in the users system
> for installing a plugin after running setup to track persons using
> AT's like screen readers with google analytics?
> I am sure this will definitely help a lot for everyone.
>
> Thanks ,
>
> Ravindra Kumar Jain
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>



--

Karl Groves
www.karlgroves.com
@karlgroves
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
Phone: +1 410.541.6829
This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately.

From: Karl Groves
Date: Fri, Feb 21 2014 9:10AM
Subject: Re: Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics
← Previous message | Next message →

Greg,

I wrote a long response on the ins & outs of browser & feature detection
and deleted it mostly for one reason: detecting AT or AT-based features is
missing the point entirely.

In terms of sheer numbers there are more people who are Low Vision than
Blind. There are more people with motor impairments than visually impaired
& hard of hearing people combined.

There are more people with cognitive disorders than visually impaired, hard
of hearing, or motor impaired.

While there may be few cases where detecting software-based AT might be
useful, there are plenty of hardware-based AT that you'd be missing.

Looking at accessibility as a way to serve a specific population is missing
the point that accessibility is about inclusion of all people.


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Greg Gamble < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Well, how do they now a wheelchair can access it then? I'd think they
> (people with disabilities), would care less if they are tracked. So long
> as they are not singled out and the information is used correctly, why
> would they? And how would those who are trying to make things, "just work",
> do that if they didn't know what to make work or what did work?
>
> I'm not an expert on this, but I have an acquaintances that uses AT and
> she could care less on how things are made, so long as it works for her. So
> identifying and tracking those individuals makes sense to me ... so long as
> it's not used in a discriminatory way. IMO
>
> Greg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Clark, Michelle -
> NRCS, Washington, DC
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 6:01 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google
> Analytics
>
> I agree. It is similar to making sure there is a wheelchair ramp and the
> door is whide enough for the chair to enter. The law says it should be that
> way and should be the end of it.
>
> Michelle
>
> Michelle
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Karl Groves
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:52 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Cc: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google
> Analytics
>
> This topic comes up occasionally and the general consensus is basically
> "why can't people just make their sites accessible?"
>
> Here's a post I wrote on the subject:
>
> http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/13/can-we-track-how-many-users-with-disabilities-access-our-site/in
> which I say:
>
> "Finally, there’s the question of ethics surrounding detecting users with
> disabilities. Persons with disabilities are a protected class according to
> ADA and similar anti-discrimination laws worldwide. Users may be highly
> resistant to having their disabilities identified as they go throughout the
> web. Most persons with disabilities would really just rather that *the Web
> just work* for them. "
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:04 AM, Ravindra Kumar Jain
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
>
> > HI all,
> > I have gone through sites to search if their is a definite way to
> > track if the person using Assistive Technology like screen reader can
> > be tracked using Google Analytics or any other way. Also gone through
> > this previous discussion @ webaim
> >
> > http://webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread?threadR59
> > and Stackoverflow
> >
> >
> > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18190572/using-javascript-how-can-y
> > ou-track-if-a-website-visitor-is-using-a-screen-reade
> >
> > But till now mostly the answer is negative , as said in the above
> > posts that assistive technology like Screen Reader is a totally
> > different program altogether.
> > My question is this
> >
> > "Can't Companies like Google (Analytics) and Screen Reader
> > manufacturers like Freedom Scientific (JAWS), Apple (voiceover),
> > nvaccess (nvda) and Accessibility Api's Specialist like Microsoft
> > (msaa), Linux (ATK) , and Apple ( Mac OS X Accessibility Protocol)
> > come up with a solution for tracking persons using screen readers with
> > analytics ? "
> > Is it so difficult ? Is their already some work going on in this
> > direction ?
> > Can't the Screen Reader manufacturers embed a code in the users system
> > for installing a plugin after running setup to track persons using
> > AT's like screen readers with google analytics?
> > I am sure this will definitely help a lot for everyone.
> >
> > Thanks ,
> >
> > Ravindra Kumar Jain
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > > > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Karl Groves
> www.karlgroves.com
> @karlgroves
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
> Phone: +1 410.541.6829
> > > messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>
> This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely
> for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message
> or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law
> and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you
> have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete
> the email immediately.
> > > messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > >



--

Karl Groves
www.karlgroves.com
@karlgroves
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
Phone: +1 410.541.6829

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Fri, Feb 21 2014 9:29AM
Subject: Re: Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics
← Previous message | Next message →

On 21/02/2014 16:10, Karl Groves wrote:
> Looking at accessibility as a way to serve a specific population is missing
> the point that accessibility is about inclusion of all people.

and just closing the loop from the thread starter

On 21/02/2014 08:04, Ravindra Kumar Jain wrote:
> But till now mostly the answer is negative , as said in the above
> posts that assistive technology like Screen Reader is a totally
> different program altogether.

That assertion is not entirely correct, I'd say. Screen readers sit on
top of the exact same program (the browser) that "regular" users use.
And, for the most part, you don't need to do anything different in order
to make your site work equally well for an SR and non-SR user, other
than properly applying web standards and being mindful of general
accessibility considerations (which extend well beyond SR specific code).

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Lucy Greco
Date: Fri, Feb 21 2014 9:50AM
Subject: Re: Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics
← Previous message | Next message →

Well said.

Lucia Greco
Web Access Evangelist
IST - Architecture, Platforms, and Integration
University of California, Berkeley
(510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
follow me on twitter @accessaces

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
[mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Karl Groves
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:11 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google
Analytics

Greg,

I wrote a long response on the ins & outs of browser & feature detection
and deleted it mostly for one reason: detecting AT or AT-based features is
missing the point entirely.

In terms of sheer numbers there are more people who are Low Vision than
Blind. There are more people with motor impairments than visually impaired
& hard of hearing people combined.

There are more people with cognitive disorders than visually impaired, hard
of hearing, or motor impaired.

While there may be few cases where detecting software-based AT might be
useful, there are plenty of hardware-based AT that you'd be missing.

Looking at accessibility as a way to serve a specific population is missing
the point that accessibility is about inclusion of all people.


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Greg Gamble < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Well, how do they now a wheelchair can access it then? I'd think they
> (people with disabilities), would care less if they are tracked. So long
> as they are not singled out and the information is used correctly, why
> would they? And how would those who are trying to make things, "just
> work",
> do that if they didn't know what to make work or what did work?
>
> I'm not an expert on this, but I have an acquaintances that uses AT and
> she could care less on how things are made, so long as it works for her.
> So
> identifying and tracking those individuals makes sense to me ... so long
> as
> it's not used in a discriminatory way. IMO
>
> Greg
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Clark, Michelle -
> NRCS, Washington, DC
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 6:01 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google
> Analytics
>
> I agree. It is similar to making sure there is a wheelchair ramp and the
> door is whide enough for the chair to enter. The law says it should be
> that
> way and should be the end of it.
>
> Michelle
>
> Michelle
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto:
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Karl Groves
> Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:52 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Cc: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google
> Analytics
>
> This topic comes up occasionally and the general consensus is basically
> "why can't people just make their sites accessible?"
>
> Here's a post I wrote on the subject:
>
> http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/13/can-we-track-how-many-users-with-disabilities-access-our-site/in
> which I say:
>
> "Finally, there's the question of ethics surrounding detecting users with
> disabilities. Persons with disabilities are a protected class according to
> ADA and similar anti-discrimination laws worldwide. Users may be highly
> resistant to having their disabilities identified as they go throughout
> the
> web. Most persons with disabilities would really just rather that *the Web
> just work* for them. "
>
>
> On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:04 AM, Ravindra Kumar Jain
> < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:
>
> > HI all,
> > I have gone through sites to search if their is a definite way to
> > track if the person using Assistive Technology like screen reader can
> > be tracked using Google Analytics or any other way. Also gone through
> > this previous discussion @ webaim
> >
> > http://webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread?thread=5259
> > and Stackoverflow
> >
> >
> > http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18190572/using-javascript-how-can-y
> > ou-track-if-a-website-visitor-is-using-a-screen-reade
> >
> > But till now mostly the answer is negative , as said in the above
> > posts that assistive technology like Screen Reader is a totally
> > different program altogether.
> > My question is this
> >
> > "Can't Companies like Google (Analytics) and Screen Reader
> > manufacturers like Freedom Scientific (JAWS), Apple (voiceover),
> > nvaccess (nvda) and Accessibility Api's Specialist like Microsoft
> > (msaa), Linux (ATK) , and Apple ( Mac OS X Accessibility Protocol)
> > come up with a solution for tracking persons using screen readers with
> > analytics ? "
> > Is it so difficult ? Is their already some work going on in this
> > direction ?
> > Can't the Screen Reader manufacturers embed a code in the users system
> > for installing a plugin after running setup to track persons using
> > AT's like screen readers with google analytics?
> > I am sure this will definitely help a lot for everyone.
> >
> > Thanks ,
> >
> > Ravindra Kumar Jain
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > > > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> Karl Groves
> www.karlgroves.com
> @karlgroves
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
> Phone: +1 410.541.6829
> > > messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>
>
>
>
> This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely
> for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message
> or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the
> law
> and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe
> you
> have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete
> the email immediately.
> > > messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > >



--

Karl Groves
www.karlgroves.com
@karlgroves
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
Phone: +1 410.541.6829

From: Angela French
Date: Fri, Feb 21 2014 10:27AM
Subject: Re: Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers&GoogleAnalytics
← Previous message | Next message →

I am a statistic of Google Analytics anytime I visit a site, but am I tracked or am I anonymous as far as the device I accessed a site from goes?
I think the word tracking may not be the correct word. Shouldn't the question be "Is it possible to identify the use of an AT device, much like we can identify PC vs mobile?"

Angela French

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Greg Gamble
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 7:35 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics

Well, how do they now a wheelchair can access it then? I'd think they (people with disabilities), would care less if they are tracked. So long as they are not singled out and the information is used correctly, why would they? And how would those who are trying to make things, "just work", do that if they didn't know what to make work or what did work?

I'm not an expert on this, but I have an acquaintances that uses AT and she could care less on how things are made, so long as it works for her. So identifying and tracking those individuals makes sense to me ... so long as it's not used in a discriminatory way. IMO

Greg


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Clark, Michelle - NRCS, Washington, DC
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 6:01 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics

I agree. It is similar to making sure there is a wheelchair ramp and the door is whide enough for the chair to enter. The law says it should be that way and should be the end of it.

Michelle

Michelle

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Karl Groves
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:52 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Cc: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics

This topic comes up occasionally and the general consensus is basically "why can't people just make their sites accessible?"

Here's a post I wrote on the subject:
http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/13/can-we-track-how-many-users-with-disabilities-access-our-site/in
which I say:

"Finally, there’s the question of ethics surrounding detecting users with disabilities. Persons with disabilities are a protected class according to ADA and similar anti-discrimination laws worldwide. Users may be highly resistant to having their disabilities identified as they go throughout the web. Most persons with disabilities would really just rather that *the Web just work* for them. "


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:04 AM, Ravindra Kumar Jain
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> HI all,
> I have gone through sites to search if their is a definite way to
> track if the person using Assistive Technology like screen reader can
> be tracked using Google Analytics or any other way. Also gone through
> this previous discussion @ webaim
>
> http://webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread?threadR59
> and Stackoverflow
>
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18190572/using-javascript-how-can-y
> ou-track-if-a-website-visitor-is-using-a-screen-reade
>
> But till now mostly the answer is negative , as said in the above
> posts that assistive technology like Screen Reader is a totally
> different program altogether.
> My question is this
>
> "Can't Companies like Google (Analytics) and Screen Reader
> manufacturers like Freedom Scientific (JAWS), Apple (voiceover),
> nvaccess (nvda) and Accessibility Api's Specialist like Microsoft
> (msaa), Linux (ATK) , and Apple ( Mac OS X Accessibility Protocol)
> come up with a solution for tracking persons using screen readers with
> analytics ? "
> Is it so difficult ? Is their already some work going on in this
> direction ?
> Can't the Screen Reader manufacturers embed a code in the users system
> for installing a plugin after running setup to track persons using
> AT's like screen readers with google analytics?
> I am sure this will definitely help a lot for everyone.
>
> Thanks ,
>
> Ravindra Kumar Jain
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>



--

Karl Groves
www.karlgroves.com
@karlgroves
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
Phone: +1 410.541.6829
This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately.

From: Tim Harshbarger
Date: Sat, Feb 22 2014 2:05PM
Subject: Re: Assistive Technologies / ScreenReaders&GoogleAnalytics
← Previous message | No next message

I would suggest that you ask a couple questions. First, what would you do differently if you knew a user was utilizing assistive technology to access your site? Second, what prevents you from integrating that functionality/accessibility into your "mainstream" design?

If you are newer to accessibility, it is understandable that you might find creating a separate interface to be alluring. When you first start trying to design and develop with accessibility in mind, every design and development decision can seem very challenging. As you develop experience with accessibility, you will find that most of the design and development decisions are truthfully very easy.

While there are techniques that can make the creation and maintenance of separate views that provide the same functionality easier to do, it still increases your design, development, and testing time. So, short term it might seem like a great idea, but long term it will likely cost you more. So, you will want to seriously consider if you want to take on the long term costs.

If you find yourself facing a design/development decision where creating a separate interface seems the only option, I would offer 2 suggestions. First, consider seriously redesigning the interface. Second, if you have no other choice but to create the separate design, then offer the user the choice of which one to use.

There really isn't any great way to figure out who is using which AT and which version of the AT. So, personalization is your best bet. By personalization, I mean either adding functionality to the page that allows the user to switch the view on that page or provide a place on the site where the user can optimize personalization's for their own user experience.

If you go the personalization route, I am going to recommend that you avoid labelling personalization options with terms like "Screen Reader" or "Blind" or "Deaf" or whatever. Instead label them with the functionality they provide. One of the secrets of accessibility is that it isn't about disability but about functionality. Providing close captions for a video isn't just about people who are deaf, but about people who have problems perceiving or understanding the audio track of a video. By labelling these options by the functionality you are providing, you increase the likelihood they will be used by people who can benefit from them.

I have my own strong opinions on whether or not AT usage should be trackable...however, I've not come across any compelling case for developing that ability. So, until someone can make a strong case for why tracking AT usage would be beneficial to the end user's experience, I suspect it really seems like functionality that has no real value.

Tim

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Angela French
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 11:27 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics

I am a statistic of Google Analytics anytime I visit a site, but am I tracked or am I anonymous as far as the device I accessed a site from goes?
I think the word tracking may not be the correct word. Shouldn't the question be "Is it possible to identify the use of an AT device, much like we can identify PC vs mobile?"

Angela French

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Greg Gamble
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 7:35 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics

Well, how do they now a wheelchair can access it then? I'd think they (people with disabilities), would care less if they are tracked. So long as they are not singled out and the information is used correctly, why would they? And how would those who are trying to make things, "just work", do that if they didn't know what to make work or what did work?

I'm not an expert on this, but I have an acquaintances that uses AT and she could care less on how things are made, so long as it works for her. So identifying and tracking those individuals makes sense to me ... so long as it's not used in a discriminatory way. IMO

Greg


-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Clark, Michelle - NRCS, Washington, DC
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 6:01 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics

I agree. It is similar to making sure there is a wheelchair ramp and the door is whide enough for the chair to enter. The law says it should be that way and should be the end of it.

Michelle

Michelle

-----Original Message-----
From: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Karl Groves
Sent: Friday, February 21, 2014 8:52 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Cc: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Assistive Technologies / Screen Readers & Google Analytics

This topic comes up occasionally and the general consensus is basically "why can't people just make their sites accessible?"

Here's a post I wrote on the subject:
http://www.karlgroves.com/2013/05/13/can-we-track-how-many-users-with-disabilities-access-our-site/in
which I say:

"Finally, there’s the question of ethics surrounding detecting users with disabilities. Persons with disabilities are a protected class according to ADA and similar anti-discrimination laws worldwide. Users may be highly resistant to having their disabilities identified as they go throughout the web. Most persons with disabilities would really just rather that *the Web just work* for them. "


On Fri, Feb 21, 2014 at 3:04 AM, Ravindra Kumar Jain
< = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >wrote:

> HI all,
> I have gone through sites to search if their is a definite way to
> track if the person using Assistive Technology like screen reader can
> be tracked using Google Analytics or any other way. Also gone through
> this previous discussion @ webaim
>
> http://webaim.org/discussion/mail_thread?threadR59
> and Stackoverflow
>
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18190572/using-javascript-how-can-y
> ou-track-if-a-website-visitor-is-using-a-screen-reade
>
> But till now mostly the answer is negative , as said in the above
> posts that assistive technology like Screen Reader is a totally
> different program altogether.
> My question is this
>
> "Can't Companies like Google (Analytics) and Screen Reader
> manufacturers like Freedom Scientific (JAWS), Apple (voiceover),
> nvaccess (nvda) and Accessibility Api's Specialist like Microsoft
> (msaa), Linux (ATK) , and Apple ( Mac OS X Accessibility Protocol)
> come up with a solution for tracking persons using screen readers with
> analytics ? "
> Is it so difficult ? Is their already some work going on in this
> direction ?
> Can't the Screen Reader manufacturers embed a code in the users system
> for installing a plugin after running setup to track persons using
> AT's like screen readers with google analytics?
> I am sure this will definitely help a lot for everyone.
>
> Thanks ,
>
> Ravindra Kumar Jain
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> > > list messages to = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>



--

Karl Groves
www.karlgroves.com
@karlgroves
http://www.linkedin.com/in/karlgroves
Phone: +1 410.541.6829
This electronic message contains information generated by the USDA solely for the intended recipients. Any unauthorized interception of this message or the use or disclosure of the information it contains may violate the law and subject the violator to civil or criminal penalties. If you believe you have received this message in error, please notify the sender and delete the email immediately.