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Number of posts in this thread: 8 (In chronological order)

From: Jennifer Sutton
Date: Mon, Oct 12 2015 11:50AM
Subject: browsers and screen reader testing
No previous message | Next message →

Greetings, WebAIM (and those who aren't on the list and being bcc-ed):

I thought some of you might be interested in these two references
related to browsers and screen reader testing. I know that a lot of us
do a lot of testing and develop our own matrices and the like, but it
would sure be nice if a one-stop resource could be kept up-to-date on
Git, especially for those who aren't all that experienced with screen
readers, so may not necessarily know how to test correctly, using the
most relevant/best combos.

I am sharing these resources in an effort to foster
cooperation/collaboration in our community, such as via a Git resource,
if Steve is willing.

Yes, ideas are a dime a dozen, but it often does seem to me as if
there's a lot of repeated effort. And this doesn't seem to me as if it
would/should be a "special" "value add" for for--profits. This should
all be pretty factual.

Sorry, since I'm not currently fully employed, I don't have the band
width to take on another volunteer effort. I will continue to do what I
can, though.

My two cents for the day.

Thanks, as always, to Steve and TPG for so freely sharing their efforts.

Best,
Jennifer

Rough Guide: browsers, operating systems and screen reader support – Updated
Rough Guide: browsers, operating systems and screen reader support –
Updated
https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2014/10/rough-guide-browsers-operating-systems-and-screen-reader-support-updated/


and

Aural UI of HTML Elements:
http://thepaciellogroup.github.io/AT-browser-tests/

From: Jordan Wilson
Date: Tue, Oct 13 2015 8:11AM
Subject: Re: browsers and screen reader testing
← Previous message | Next message →

This is incredibly helpful, thanks for posting!
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of Jennifer Sutton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 1:50 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: [WebAIM] browsers and screen reader testing

Greetings, WebAIM (and those who aren't on the list and being bcc-ed):

I thought some of you might be interested in these two references
related to browsers and screen reader testing. I know that a lot of us
do a lot of testing and develop our own matrices and the like, but it
would sure be nice if a one-stop resource could be kept up-to-date on
Git, especially for those who aren't all that experienced with screen
readers, so may not necessarily know how to test correctly, using the
most relevant/best combos.

I am sharing these resources in an effort to foster
cooperation/collaboration in our community, such as via a Git resource,
if Steve is willing.

Yes, ideas are a dime a dozen, but it often does seem to me as if
there's a lot of repeated effort. And this doesn't seem to me as if it
would/should be a "special" "value add" for for--profits. This should
all be pretty factual.

Sorry, since I'm not currently fully employed, I don't have the band
width to take on another volunteer effort. I will continue to do what I
can, though.

My two cents for the day.

Thanks, as always, to Steve and TPG for so freely sharing their efforts.

Best,
Jennifer

Rough Guide: browsers, operating systems and screen reader support – Updated
Rough Guide: browsers, operating systems and screen reader support –
Updated
https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2014/10/rough-guide-browsers-operating-systems-and-screen-reader-support-updated/


and

Aural UI of HTML Elements:
http://thepaciellogroup.github.io/AT-browser-tests/

From: Sailesh Panchang
Date: Wed, Oct 14 2015 7:42PM
Subject: Re: browsers and screen reader testing
← Previous message | Next message →

Hello Jennifer,
Thanks for your post.
I have also been experimenting with HTML5 form types over the past few
days. Here is a result of my testing. It only covers a handful of
HTML5 elements and attributes at present.

The table is quite packed really with my notes. There is a link to a
test page too.
Warning for non screen reader users: it might help to collapse the
columns for a couple of browsers in the data table so the content is
more easily readable.

Please let me know if you observe something different in the screen
reader behavior.
Here is the link: www.mindoversight.com/demo/Html5ElementTable.php

Thanks,
Sailesh Panchang


On 10/13/15, Jordan Wilson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> This is incredibly helpful, thanks for posting!
> > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of
> Jennifer Sutton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 1:50 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: [WebAIM] browsers and screen reader testing
>
> Greetings, WebAIM (and those who aren't on the list and being bcc-ed):
>
> I thought some of you might be interested in these two references
> related to browsers and screen reader testing. I know that a lot of us
> do a lot of testing and develop our own matrices and the like, but it
> would sure be nice if a one-stop resource could be kept up-to-date on
> Git, especially for those who aren't all that experienced with screen
> readers, so may not necessarily know how to test correctly, using the
> most relevant/best combos.
>
> I am sharing these resources in an effort to foster
> cooperation/collaboration in our community, such as via a Git resource,
> if Steve is willing.
>
> Yes, ideas are a dime a dozen, but it often does seem to me as if
> there's a lot of repeated effort. And this doesn't seem to me as if it
> would/should be a "special" "value add" for for--profits. This should
> all be pretty factual.
>
> Sorry, since I'm not currently fully employed, I don't have the band
> width to take on another volunteer effort. I will continue to do what I
> can, though.
>
> My two cents for the day.
>
> Thanks, as always, to Steve and TPG for so freely sharing their efforts.
>
> Best,
> Jennifer
>
> Rough Guide: browsers, operating systems and screen reader support – Updated
> Rough Guide: browsers, operating systems and screen reader support –
> Updated
> https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2014/10/rough-guide-browsers-operating-systems-and-screen-reader-support-updated/
>
>
> and
>
> Aural UI of HTML Elements:
> http://thepaciellogroup.github.io/AT-browser-tests/
> > > > > > > > >

From: Steve Faulkner
Date: Thu, Oct 15 2015 12:04AM
Subject: Re: browsers and screen reader testing
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Sailesh, thanks for sharing.

Suggest it would be useful to note where the tests are 'fails' due to
browsers not implementing a particular feature, as these are not 'fails'
are they?

--

Regards

SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;

On 15 October 2015 at 02:42, Sailesh Panchang < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Hello Jennifer,
> Thanks for your post.
> I have also been experimenting with HTML5 form types over the past few
> days. Here is a result of my testing. It only covers a handful of
> HTML5 elements and attributes at present.
>
> The table is quite packed really with my notes. There is a link to a
> test page too.
> Warning for non screen reader users: it might help to collapse the
> columns for a couple of browsers in the data table so the content is
> more easily readable.
>
> Please let me know if you observe something different in the screen
> reader behavior.
> Here is the link: www.mindoversight.com/demo/Html5ElementTable.php
>
> Thanks,
> Sailesh Panchang
>
>
> On 10/13/15, Jordan Wilson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > This is incredibly helpful, thanks for posting!
> > > > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of
> > Jennifer Sutton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 1:50 PM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List
> > Subject: [WebAIM] browsers and screen reader testing
> >
> > Greetings, WebAIM (and those who aren't on the list and being bcc-ed):
> >
> > I thought some of you might be interested in these two references
> > related to browsers and screen reader testing. I know that a lot of us
> > do a lot of testing and develop our own matrices and the like, but it
> > would sure be nice if a one-stop resource could be kept up-to-date on
> > Git, especially for those who aren't all that experienced with screen
> > readers, so may not necessarily know how to test correctly, using the
> > most relevant/best combos.
> >
> > I am sharing these resources in an effort to foster
> > cooperation/collaboration in our community, such as via a Git resource,
> > if Steve is willing.
> >
> > Yes, ideas are a dime a dozen, but it often does seem to me as if
> > there's a lot of repeated effort. And this doesn't seem to me as if it
> > would/should be a "special" "value add" for for--profits. This should
> > all be pretty factual.
> >
> > Sorry, since I'm not currently fully employed, I don't have the band
> > width to take on another volunteer effort. I will continue to do what I
> > can, though.
> >
> > My two cents for the day.
> >
> > Thanks, as always, to Steve and TPG for so freely sharing their efforts.
> >
> > Best,
> > Jennifer
> >
> > Rough Guide: browsers, operating systems and screen reader support –
> Updated
> > Rough Guide: browsers, operating systems and screen reader support –
> > Updated
> >
> https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2014/10/rough-guide-browsers-operating-systems-and-screen-reader-support-updated/
> >
> >
> > and
> >
> > Aural UI of HTML Elements:
> > http://thepaciellogroup.github.io/AT-browser-tests/
> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >

From: Steve Faulkner
Date: Thu, Oct 15 2015 12:15AM
Subject: Re: browsers and screen reader testing
← Previous message | Next message →

http://www.html5accessibility.com/ documents current (June 2015) browser
accessibility implementation support for many "new" HTML5 features

--

Regards

SteveF
Current Standards Work @W3C
<http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;

On 15 October 2015 at 07:04, Steve Faulkner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> Hi Sailesh, thanks for sharing.
>
> Suggest it would be useful to note where the tests are 'fails' due to
> browsers not implementing a particular feature, as these are not 'fails'
> are they?
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> Current Standards Work @W3C
> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;
>
> On 15 October 2015 at 02:42, Sailesh Panchang < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
>> Hello Jennifer,
>> Thanks for your post.
>> I have also been experimenting with HTML5 form types over the past few
>> days. Here is a result of my testing. It only covers a handful of
>> HTML5 elements and attributes at present.
>>
>> The table is quite packed really with my notes. There is a link to a
>> test page too.
>> Warning for non screen reader users: it might help to collapse the
>> columns for a couple of browsers in the data table so the content is
>> more easily readable.
>>
>> Please let me know if you observe something different in the screen
>> reader behavior.
>> Here is the link: www.mindoversight.com/demo/Html5ElementTable.php
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sailesh Panchang
>>
>>
>> On 10/13/15, Jordan Wilson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> > This is incredibly helpful, thanks for posting!
>> > >> > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of
>> > Jennifer Sutton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> > Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 1:50 PM
>> > To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> > Subject: [WebAIM] browsers and screen reader testing
>> >
>> > Greetings, WebAIM (and those who aren't on the list and being bcc-ed):
>> >
>> > I thought some of you might be interested in these two references
>> > related to browsers and screen reader testing. I know that a lot of us
>> > do a lot of testing and develop our own matrices and the like, but it
>> > would sure be nice if a one-stop resource could be kept up-to-date on
>> > Git, especially for those who aren't all that experienced with screen
>> > readers, so may not necessarily know how to test correctly, using the
>> > most relevant/best combos.
>> >
>> > I am sharing these resources in an effort to foster
>> > cooperation/collaboration in our community, such as via a Git resource,
>> > if Steve is willing.
>> >
>> > Yes, ideas are a dime a dozen, but it often does seem to me as if
>> > there's a lot of repeated effort. And this doesn't seem to me as if it
>> > would/should be a "special" "value add" for for--profits. This should
>> > all be pretty factual.
>> >
>> > Sorry, since I'm not currently fully employed, I don't have the band
>> > width to take on another volunteer effort. I will continue to do what I
>> > can, though.
>> >
>> > My two cents for the day.
>> >
>> > Thanks, as always, to Steve and TPG for so freely sharing their efforts.
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Jennifer
>> >
>> > Rough Guide: browsers, operating systems and screen reader support –
>> Updated
>> > Rough Guide: browsers, operating systems and screen reader support –
>> > Updated
>> >
>> https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2014/10/rough-guide-browsers-operating-systems-and-screen-reader-support-updated/
>> >
>> >
>> > and
>> >
>> > Aural UI of HTML Elements:
>> > http://thepaciellogroup.github.io/AT-browser-tests/
>> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> >>
>
>

From: Sailesh Panchang
Date: Thu, Oct 15 2015 7:34AM
Subject: Re: browsers and screen reader testing
← Previous message | Next message →

Hello Steve,
Is the description of the experience in all cells whether marked
Failed / Works / Works fine not sufficient or clear enough?
Note: my focus is on the screen reader - browser combo experience.
For instance, I have not commented on whether the placeholder text is
available visually or has sufficient contrast for non-AT users.

Thanks,
Sailesh Panchang


On 10/15/15, Steve Faulkner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> http://www.html5accessibility.com/ documents current (June 2015) browser
> accessibility implementation support for many "new" HTML5 features
>
> --
>
> Regards
>
> SteveF
> Current Standards Work @W3C
> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;
>
> On 15 October 2015 at 07:04, Steve Faulkner < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Sailesh, thanks for sharing.
>>
>> Suggest it would be useful to note where the tests are 'fails' due to
>> browsers not implementing a particular feature, as these are not 'fails'
>> are they?
>>
>> --
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> SteveF
>> Current Standards Work @W3C
>> <http://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2015/03/current-standards-work-at-w3c/>;
>>
>> On 15 October 2015 at 02:42, Sailesh Panchang < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Jennifer,
>>> Thanks for your post.
>>> I have also been experimenting with HTML5 form types over the past few
>>> days. Here is a result of my testing. It only covers a handful of
>>> HTML5 elements and attributes at present.
>>>
>>> The table is quite packed really with my notes. There is a link to a
>>> test page too.
>>> Warning for non screen reader users: it might help to collapse the
>>> columns for a couple of browsers in the data table so the content is
>>> more easily readable.
>>>
>>> Please let me know if you observe something different in the screen
>>> reader behavior.
>>> Here is the link: www.mindoversight.com/demo/Html5ElementTable.php
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sailesh Panchang
>>>
>>>
>>> On 10/13/15, Jordan Wilson < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>>> > This is incredibly helpful, thanks for posting!
>>> > >>> > From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > on behalf of
>>> > Jennifer Sutton < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
>>> > Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 1:50 PM
>>> > To: WebAIM Discussion List
>>> > Subject: [WebAIM] browsers and screen reader testing
>>> >
>>> > Greetings, WebAIM (and those who aren't on the list and being bcc-ed):
>>> >
>>> > I thought some of you might be interested in these two references
>>> > related to browsers and screen reader testing. I know that a lot of us
>>> > do a lot of testing and develop our own matrices and the like, but it
>>> > would sure be nice if a one-stop resource could be kept up-to-date on
>>> > Git, especially for those who aren't all that experienced with screen
>>> > readers, so may not necessarily know how to test correctly, using the
>>> > most relevant/best combos.
>>> >
>>> > I am sharing these resources in an effort to foster
>>> > cooperation/collaboration in our community, such as via a Git resource,
>>> > if Steve is willing.
>>> >
>>> > Yes, ideas are a dime a dozen, but it often does seem to me as if
>>> > there's a lot of repeated effort. And this doesn't seem to me as if it
>>> > would/should be a "special" "value add" for for--profits. This should
>>> > all be pretty factual.
>>> >
>>> > Sorry, since I'm not currently fully employed, I don't have the band
>>> > width to take on another volunteer effort. I will continue to do what I
>>> > can, though.
>>> >
>>> > My two cents for the day.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks, as always, to Steve and TPG for so freely sharing their
>>> > efforts.
>>> >
>>> > Best,
>>> > Jennifer
>>> >
>>> > Rough Guide: browsers, operating systems and screen reader support –
>>> Updated
>>> > Rough Guide: browsers, operating systems and screen reader support –
>>> > Updated
>>> >
>>> https://www.paciellogroup.com/blog/2014/10/rough-guide-browsers-operating-systems-and-screen-reader-support-updated/
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > and
>>> >
>>> > Aural UI of HTML Elements:
>>> > http://thepaciellogroup.github.io/AT-browser-tests/
>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >
>>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
>>
>>
> > > > >

From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Thu, Oct 15 2015 8:29AM
Subject: Re: browsers and screen reader testing
← Previous message | Next message →

> Is the description of the experience in all cells whether marked Failed / Works / Works fine not sufficient or clear enough?

Sailesh, I would agree with Steve that by marking it as a failure it is implied that it is a screen reader failure or an accessibility failure when instead it's that the browser did not implement the feature for all users. Personally I would find a comparison between the feature as implemented for all users compared to the accessibility experience most helpful.

All, I appreciate everyone's efforts creating these types of matrices -- I create them myself. One thing that I see others do (not you specifically) is make general statements without documenting that nuanced ways things are exposed. That is, I've found with screen readers that things may be announced different with tab than with arrows in browser/virtual cursor mode, etc. So it's very important to document the method of navigation. Another example is how a technique is performed. For example, someone might conclude that aria-live is not work but there are multiple ways to implement dynamic content changes, e.g. display, visibility, node additional removal, text node removal additions, etc. and I've found that the varying methods may have different results. Thus, it is very important for those of us including myself to be very clear on these factors. So this is just something for everyone to keep in mind.

Jonathan

-- 
Jonathan Avila 
Chief Accessibility Officer
SSB BART Group 
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
Phone 703.637.8957  
Follow us: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Blog | Newsletter

From: Sailesh Panchang
Date: Thu, Oct 15 2015 8:58AM
Subject: Re: browsers and screen reader testing
← Previous message | No next message

Hi Jonathan,
Refer: www.mindoversight.com/demo/Html5ElementTable.php
I believe the focus of the test is "practical accessibility using
different browser and screen reader combos.
Let me give you another example from the table: VO with Safari On OSX
only announces the value in a type=range control ... but on iOS it
reads the associated number (125, 130, etc.) as well .
On Windows, the screen readers only read the range value: 125, 130, etc.
No I have not commented on what the range control actually displays
or works with no AT in use. I kept it out of scope for my testing.
That's why I chose not to give a single word descriptor in every cell
like Pass / Fail but included an explanation. Notice the required
attribute works in forms mode but the placeholder when out of forms
mode in IE and JAWS.
I believe the title of the page and the table conveyed the objective.
Maybe I will clarify the objective of the test with a statement or
two.
Thanks,
Sailesh


On 10/15/15, Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Is the description of the experience in all cells whether marked Failed /
>> Works / Works fine not sufficient or clear enough?
>
> Sailesh, I would agree with Steve that by marking it as a failure it is
> implied that it is a screen reader failure or an accessibility failure when
> instead it's that the browser did not implement the feature for all users.
> Personally I would find a comparison between the feature as implemented for
> all users compared to the accessibility experience most helpful.
>
> All, I appreciate everyone's efforts creating these types of matrices -- I
> create them myself. One thing that I see others do (not you specifically)
> is make general statements without documenting that nuanced ways things are
> exposed. That is, I've found with screen readers that things may be
> announced different with tab than with arrows in browser/virtual cursor
> mode, etc. So it's very important to document the method of navigation.
> Another example is how a technique is performed. For example, someone might
> conclude that aria-live is not work but there are multiple ways to implement
> dynamic content changes, e.g. display, visibility, node additional removal,
> text node removal additions, etc. and I've found that the varying methods
> may have different results. Thus, it is very important for those of us
> including myself to be very clear on these factors. So this is just
> something for everyone to keep in mind.
>
> Jonathan
>
> --
> Jonathan Avila
> Chief Accessibility Officer
> SSB BART Group
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> Phone 703.637.8957
> Follow us: Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Blog | Newsletter
>
>