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Thread: Alt text
Number of posts in this thread: 21 (In chronological order)
From: karthik k
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2017 10:21PM
Subject: Alt text
No previous message | Next message →
Dear experts,
After a lot of discussion, we have decided to use manual alt text. We
have a website which is similar to facebook but restricted to
particular community where thousands of pictures are uploaded
everyday. Does it work if we provide some edit field where the
particular user writes the description of photo before uploading it?
Please suggest.
From: Alon Fridman Waisbard
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2017 10:52PM
Subject: Re: Alt text
← Previous message | Next message →
That exactly what Twitter does. The only problem there is that people don't
use the feature and most photos are left without alternative text.
You can read more about it in Twitter's announcement about
On Feb 9, 2017 07:21, "karthik k" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
Dear experts,
After a lot of discussion, we have decided to use manual alt text. We
have a website which is similar to facebook but restricted to
particular community where thousands of pictures are uploaded
everyday. Does it work if we provide some edit field where the
particular user writes the description of photo before uploading it?
Please suggest.
From: Alon Fridman Waisbard
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2017 10:54PM
Subject: Re: Alt text
← Previous message | Next message →
Sorry, my previous mail got sent before I got to add the link.
Here it is :
https://blog.twitter.com/2016/accessible-images-for-everyone
On Feb 9, 2017 07:52, wrote:
That exactly what Twitter does. The only problem there is that people don't
use the feature and most photos are left without alternative text.
You can read more about it in Twitter's announcement about
On Feb 9, 2017 07:21, "karthik k" < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
Dear experts,
After a lot of discussion, we have decided to use manual alt text. We
have a website which is similar to facebook but restricted to
particular community where thousands of pictures are uploaded
everyday. Does it work if we provide some edit field where the
particular user writes the description of photo before uploading it?
Please suggest.
From: Narendra Vg
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2017 11:01PM
Subject: Re: Alt text
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Karthick,
I am assuming there should be a edit box to write about the post.
People can type the image description at end of the post. For example,
after your post, 'image description all the team having dinner
together-
HTH
Narendra VG
On 2/9/17, karthik k < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Dear experts,
> After a lot of discussion, we have decided to use manual alt text. We
> have a website which is similar to facebook but restricted to
> particular community where thousands of pictures are uploaded
> everyday. Does it work if we provide some edit field where the
> particular user writes the description of photo before uploading it?
> Please suggest.
> > > > >
From: Rakesh P
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2017 11:13PM
Subject: Re: Alt text
← Previous message | Next message →
Thats a great thought Karthik. Even the caption field of facebook allows
doing that but who cares unless it is a mandatory field. If your website is
very clear in terms of making the content accessible, I recommend you to
make it as a required field. Not filling that field will deny uploading the
image. An instruction if possible to the field that says the text should
describe the image will make the pictures having appropriate alternate
text.
On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 11:31 AM, Narendra Vg < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> Hi Karthick,
> I am assuming there should be a edit box to write about the post.
> People can type the image description at end of the post. For example,
> after your post, 'image description all the team having dinner
> together-
> HTH
> Narendra VG
>
>
> On 2/9/17, karthik k < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Dear experts,
> > After a lot of discussion, we have decided to use manual alt text. We
> > have a website which is similar to facebook but restricted to
> > particular community where thousands of pictures are uploaded
> > everyday. Does it work if we provide some edit field where the
> > particular user writes the description of photo before uploading it?
> > Please suggest.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > >
From: karthik k
Date: Wed, Feb 08 2017 11:28PM
Subject: Re: Alt text
← Previous message | Next message →
thanks everyone for your valuable feedbacks. Yes, the field has to be
made mandatory, have decided to discuss the same with the developer.
On 2/9/17, Rakesh P < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Thats a great thought Karthik. Even the caption field of facebook allows
> doing that but who cares unless it is a mandatory field. If your website is
> very clear in terms of making the content accessible, I recommend you to
> make it as a required field. Not filling that field will deny uploading the
> image. An instruction if possible to the field that says the text should
> describe the image will make the pictures having appropriate alternate
> text.
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 9, 2017 at 11:31 AM, Narendra Vg < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Karthick,
>> I am assuming there should be a edit box to write about the post.
>> People can type the image description at end of the post. For example,
>> after your post, 'image description all the team having dinner
>> together-
>> HTH
>> Narendra VG
>>
>>
>> On 2/9/17, karthik k < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> > Dear experts,
>> > After a lot of discussion, we have decided to use manual alt text. We
>> > have a website which is similar to facebook but restricted to
>> > particular community where thousands of pictures are uploaded
>> > everyday. Does it work if we provide some edit field where the
>> > particular user writes the description of photo before uploading it?
>> > Please suggest.
>> > >> > >> > >> > >> >
>> >> >> >> >>
> > > > >
--
Thanking you,
regards
Karthik K.
Phone no 9060989650
From: JP Jamous
Date: Thu, Feb 09 2017 1:04PM
Subject: Re: Alt text
← Previous message | Next message →
I know you already decided on this, but I want to add a quick UX feedback.
On my Facebook page, I have all of my relatives, friends and family members. They also write in 3 different languages. So that adds to the complexity of the alt attribute.
My policy and they all know it, When you upload a video or image, you are presented with a text box for a description. If you do not add that, I will not play the video nor ask my wife about the pictures. I provide descriptions to them even though they can see to give them additional information and for me to organize any images. If they don't do that, JP does not like the posts.
I have gotten most of them trained now to use it. So yes it can help tremendously. Those who do not are a different story.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of karthik k
Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 11:21 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: [WebAIM] Alt text
Dear experts,
After a lot of discussion, we have decided to use manual alt text. We have a website which is similar to facebook but restricted to particular community where thousands of pictures are uploaded everyday. Does it work if we provide some edit field where the particular user writes the description of photo before uploading it?
Please suggest.
From: karthik k
Date: Thu, Feb 09 2017 7:48PM
Subject: Re: Alt text
← Previous message | Next message →
Thanks for your feedback jp.
On 2/10/17, JP Jamous < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> I know you already decided on this, but I want to add a quick UX feedback.
>
> On my Facebook page, I have all of my relatives, friends and family members.
> They also write in 3 different languages. So that adds to the complexity of
> the alt attribute.
>
> My policy and they all know it, When you upload a video or image, you are
> presented with a text box for a description. If you do not add that, I will
> not play the video nor ask my wife about the pictures. I provide
> descriptions to them even though they can see to give them additional
> information and for me to organize any images. If they don't do that, JP
> does not like the posts.
>
> I have gotten most of them trained now to use it. So yes it can help
> tremendously. Those who do not are a different story.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of karthik k
> Sent: Wednesday, February 8, 2017 11:21 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: [WebAIM] Alt text
>
> Dear experts,
> After a lot of discussion, we have decided to use manual alt text. We have a
> website which is similar to facebook but restricted to particular community
> where thousands of pictures are uploaded everyday. Does it work if we
> provide some edit field where the particular user writes the description of
> photo before uploading it?
> Please suggest.
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > > >
--
Thanking you,
regards
Karthik K.
Phone no 9060989650
From: karthik k
Date: Thu, Feb 09 2017 9:47PM
Subject: Re: alt text not clear!
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi fokes,
I am testing a website where there are around 24 images in a page and
those images have alt text (that is what I think!) jaws says :
i/application-networking-services
for networking services,
i/blade-switches
for blade switches.
when I analysed with axe software, it considered these images as violations!
What could be the reason for this?
Please help.
Your feedbacks appreciated.
From: karthik k
Date: Thu, Feb 09 2017 10:24PM
Subject: Re: alt text not clear!
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi again, I checked the source, they haven't added alt text. but they
have written the description in just 2 or 3 words,
can I consider this as accessibility bug?
On 2/10/17, karthik k < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi fokes,
>
> I am testing a website where there are around 24 images in a page and
> those images have alt text (that is what I think!) jaws says :
> i/application-networking-services
> for networking services,
> i/blade-switches
> for blade switches.
> when I analysed with axe software, it considered these images as
> violations!
> What could be the reason for this?
> Please help.
> Your feedbacks appreciated.
>
--
Thanking you,
regards
Karthik K.
Phone no 9060989650
From: Rakesh P
Date: Thu, Feb 09 2017 10:34PM
Subject: Re: alt text not clear!
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Karthik,
I definitely see them as accessibility bugs. The content you are able to
hear i.e. i/application-networking-services is the source of the file. I
think the image is placed in the folder by name I, so screen reader is
reading it as I/file name.
Hope this helps.
On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 10:54 AM, karthik k < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> Hi again, I checked the source, they haven't added alt text. but they
> have written the description in just 2 or 3 words,
> can I consider this as accessibility bug?
>
> On 2/10/17, karthik k < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Hi fokes,
> >
> > I am testing a website where there are around 24 images in a page and
> > those images have alt text (that is what I think!) jaws says :
> > i/application-networking-services
> > for networking services,
> > i/blade-switches
> > for blade switches.
> > when I analysed with axe software, it considered these images as
> > violations!
> > What could be the reason for this?
> > Please help.
> > Your feedbacks appreciated.
> >
>
>
> --
> Thanking you,
> regards
> Karthik K.
> Phone no 9060989650
> > > > >
From: JP Jamous
Date: Thu, Feb 09 2017 11:01PM
Subject: Re: alt text not clear!
← Previous message | Next message →
It sure is. Even if they used aria-label="Description", it violates the fact that an <img> should have a nullified alt tag.
Using aria-label in this case is like taking an extra trip through a much longer path. Whereas, alt="Description" goes right through the shortest path. If the image is a decorative image, then alt="" should be present.
-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of karthik k
Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 11:25 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] alt text not clear!
Hi again, I checked the source, they haven't added alt text. but they have written the description in just 2 or 3 words, can I consider this as accessibility bug?
On 2/10/17, karthik k < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi fokes,
>
> I am testing a website where there are around 24 images in a page and
> those images have alt text (that is what I think!) jaws says :
> i/application-networking-services
> for networking services,
> i/blade-switches
> for blade switches.
> when I analysed with axe software, it considered these images as
> violations!
> What could be the reason for this?
> Please help.
> Your feedbacks appreciated.
>
--
Thanking you,
regards
Karthik K.
Phone no 9060989650
From: karthik k
Date: Fri, Feb 10 2017 12:29AM
Subject: Re: alt text not clear!
← Previous message | Next message →
Thanks a lot Rakesh and jp
On 2/10/17, JP Jamous < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> It sure is. Even if they used aria-label="Description", it violates the fact
> that an <img> should have a nullified alt tag.
>
> Using aria-label in this case is like taking an extra trip through a much
> longer path. Whereas, alt="Description" goes right through the shortest
> path. If the image is a decorative image, then alt="" should be present.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf
> Of karthik k
> Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 11:25 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] alt text not clear!
>
> Hi again, I checked the source, they haven't added alt text. but they have
> written the description in just 2 or 3 words, can I consider this as
> accessibility bug?
>
> On 2/10/17, karthik k < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> Hi fokes,
>>
>> I am testing a website where there are around 24 images in a page and
>> those images have alt text (that is what I think!) jaws says :
>> i/application-networking-services
>> for networking services,
>> i/blade-switches
>> for blade switches.
>> when I analysed with axe software, it considered these images as
>> violations!
>> What could be the reason for this?
>> Please help.
>> Your feedbacks appreciated.
>>
>
>
> --
> Thanking you,
> regards
> Karthik K.
> Phone no 9060989650
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> >
> > > > >
--
Thanking you,
regards
Karthik K.
Phone no 9060989650
From: Karl Brown
Date: Fri, Feb 10 2017 2:14AM
Subject: Re: alt text not clear!
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Karthik,
With alternative text a lot depends on the *purpose* of the non-text
content. Without knowing the pages you're testing it's hard to give a clear
100% response.
For example, if the image is the only content within a link, it needs to
have an alt attribute that says where the user's going. If it's going to a
page that talks about wind farms, "Wind farms" would work. If it was on an
e-commerce site and the image had text on it (so non-text content in the
HTML) that said "Half price on selected fragrances", the alt attribute
should match.
Alternative text (which isn't exactly the same as the alt attribute) must
give people the equivalent information (if possible), so having no
alternative text would be fine if the images are purely decorative. If the
images add meaning that the text around it doesn't have then there needs to
be suitable alt text applied (either as the alt attribute, an aria, or in
the body copy).
Looking at the ones you've mentioned, I'd be checking whether "for network
services" was a link to a page (as one example) or if it's part of a
stylized text that hasn't got a web font so's been added to the image
directly.
On Fri, Feb 10, 2017 at 7:29 AM, karthik k < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
> Thanks a lot Rakesh and jp
>
> On 2/10/17, JP Jamous < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > It sure is. Even if they used aria-label="Description", it violates the
> fact
> > that an <img> should have a nullified alt tag.
> >
> > Using aria-label in this case is like taking an extra trip through a much
> > longer path. Whereas, alt="Description" goes right through the shortest
> > path. If the image is a decorative image, then alt="" should be present.
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On
> Behalf
> > Of karthik k
> > Sent: Thursday, February 9, 2017 11:25 PM
> > To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] alt text not clear!
> >
> > Hi again, I checked the source, they haven't added alt text. but they
> have
> > written the description in just 2 or 3 words, can I consider this as
> > accessibility bug?
> >
> > On 2/10/17, karthik k < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >> Hi fokes,
> >>
> >> I am testing a website where there are around 24 images in a page and
> >> those images have alt text (that is what I think!) jaws says :
> >> i/application-networking-services
> >> for networking services,
> >> i/blade-switches
> >> for blade switches.
> >> when I analysed with axe software, it considered these images as
> >> violations!
> >> What could be the reason for this?
> >> Please help.
> >> Your feedbacks appreciated.
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thanking you,
> > regards
> > Karthik K.
> > Phone no 9060989650
> > > > > archives at
> > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Thanking you,
> regards
> Karthik K.
> Phone no 9060989650
> > > > >
--
Karl Brown
Twitter: @kbdevelops
Skype: kbdevelopment
Professional Certificate Web Accessibility Compliance (Distinction),
University of South Australia, 2015
From: Robert Fentress
Date: Mon, Feb 13 2017 9:06AM
Subject: Re: Dealing with Facebook's problematic automatic alt text generation (and other issues)
← Previous message | Next message →
Hello, all.
I'm curious if folks have developed strategies for dealing with Facebook's
automatic alt text generation. As many of you probably know, Facebook now
analyzes images uploaded into its system and automatically generates text
alternatives for those images. This is great for when your average user,
who is unlikely to ever provide an alternative, uploads images. However,
for those who are actually trying to do things properly, this is
problematic, since there is no way (that I've been able to determine yet)
for editing these text alternatives, and they are frequently inadequate or
incorrect, or Facebook just adds alt text saying they couldn't make heads
nor tails of the image.
Currently, I'm recommending the following and wonder if it comports with
what others are doing or recommending:
1. Upload image to an album.
2. Examine the automatically-generated alt text to see if it is adequate.
3. If so, you're done. If not, continue to next step.
4. Add a brief description below the image in the album, where it says,
"Say something about this photo..."
5. From there, if necessary, share the photo to your timeline. This is
recommended, rather than uploading the image directly from your timeline,
because, if you upload to your album and add the description there, when
you share to your timeline, the description comes over with the image, but
there is still a place for you to add text for your post that is separate
from the description. So, the post text can be different from your image
text alternative and the alternative text is in one place in your album.
A problem with this is that the actual image alt attribute is still
incorrect or inadequate. Should one say so in the description?
Another issue I've encountered is that, for Pages, one cannot add alt text
to the cover photo and Facebook automatically sets the alt attribute of
this image to null. This may be the best default solution, since that
cover photo is often purely decorative. However, the problem is that that
image is also wrapped in an anchor tag and is the only content of that
link. This causes the href of the anchor tag to be read. I haven't been
able to come up with a workaround for that one. Ideas?
Obviously there are other problems with FB architecturally, but I'm
focusing on strategies for content creators/editors and trying to deal with
the things we have some control over.
Other strategies recommended in that regard, for Pages in Facebook, include:
- Host any videos on YouTube (captioned, of course, with described
versions, as appropriate) and link to them from within Facebook, rather
than uploading videos to Facebook directly, since, among other things, FB's
video player has poor keyboard support.
- If images of flyers advertising events are uploaded, include links to
accessible PDFs and Word docs (if available) of the flyers as well, and
make sure info in flyer image is replicated in post content.
- Provide an alternate channel for users to access content, such as
cross-posting to an accessible blog.
- In the About section of the Page
- Under Contact Info, add phone, and email, and a link to an
accessible contact form.
Under Story, include something like:
"Facebook Accessibility:
https://www.facebook.com/help/273947702950567/?helpref=hc_fnav
The Facebook mobile app may provide a more accessible experience for
some users.
Content in this feed can also be found on our blog at:
http://our.blog.edu"
Anything else folks can think of, focusing on what is within a content
creator/editor's control? Thanks!
Also, assuming I haven't overlooked anything obvious here, if you agree
with me, I'd urge folks to let FB know that they should really add the
ability to edit the alt text of images. It seems very strange that they
devoted so much time and energy to enabling the automatic text
alternatives, but did not provide humans the ability to edit them. Doing
that must be trivial, by comparison, don't you think?
Best,
Rob
P.S. Thanks to Queen's University
<http://www.queensu.ca/accessibility/how-info/social-media-accessibility>;
for many of these tips.
--
Robert Fentress
Senior Accessibility Solutions Designer
540.231.1255
Technology-enhanced Learning & Online Strategies
Assistive Technologies
1180 Torgersen Hall
620 Drillfield Drive (0434)
Blacksburg, Virginia 24061
From: Robert Fentress
Date: Mon, Feb 13 2017 9:22AM
Subject: Re: Dealing with Facebook's problematic automatic alt text generation (and other issues)
← Previous message | Next message →
Upon further reflection, on the About page, I think it would be better to
put the info about the FB accessibility page, the iOS app, and the blog in
the About field under More Info, rather than in the Story. That way it is
more prominently displayed.
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Robert Fentress < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hello, all.
>
> I'm curious if folks have developed strategies for dealing with Facebook's
> automatic alt text generation. As many of you probably know, Facebook now
> analyzes images uploaded into its system and automatically generates text
> alternatives for those images. This is great for when your average user,
> who is unlikely to ever provide an alternative, uploads images. However,
> for those who are actually trying to do things properly, this is
> problematic, since there is no way (that I've been able to determine yet)
> for editing these text alternatives, and they are frequently inadequate or
> incorrect, or Facebook just adds alt text saying they couldn't make heads
> nor tails of the image.
>
> Currently, I'm recommending the following and wonder if it comports with
> what others are doing or recommending:
>
> 1. Upload image to an album.
> 2. Examine the automatically-generated alt text to see if it is
> adequate.
> 3. If so, you're done. If not, continue to next step.
> 4. Add a brief description below the image in the album, where it
> says, "Say something about this photo..."
> 5. From there, if necessary, share the photo to your timeline. This
> is recommended, rather than uploading the image directly from your
> timeline, because, if you upload to your album and add the description
> there, when you share to your timeline, the description comes over with the
> image, but there is still a place for you to add text for your post that is
> separate from the description. So, the post text can be different from
> your image text alternative and the alternative text is in one place in
> your album.
>
> A problem with this is that the actual image alt attribute is still
> incorrect or inadequate. Should one say so in the description?
>
> Another issue I've encountered is that, for Pages, one cannot add alt text
> to the cover photo and Facebook automatically sets the alt attribute of
> this image to null. This may be the best default solution, since that
> cover photo is often purely decorative. However, the problem is that that
> image is also wrapped in an anchor tag and is the only content of that
> link. This causes the href of the anchor tag to be read. I haven't been
> able to come up with a workaround for that one. Ideas?
>
> Obviously there are other problems with FB architecturally, but I'm
> focusing on strategies for content creators/editors and trying to deal with
> the things we have some control over.
>
> Other strategies recommended in that regard, for Pages in Facebook,
> include:
>
> - Host any videos on YouTube (captioned, of course, with described
> versions, as appropriate) and link to them from within Facebook, rather
> than uploading videos to Facebook directly, since, among other things, FB's
> video player has poor keyboard support.
> - If images of flyers advertising events are uploaded, include links
> to accessible PDFs and Word docs (if available) of the flyers as well, and
> make sure info in flyer image is replicated in post content.
> - Provide an alternate channel for users to access content, such as
> cross-posting to an accessible blog.
> - In the About section of the Page
> - Under Contact Info, add phone, and email, and a link to an
> accessible contact form.
> Under Story, include something like:
> "Facebook Accessibility: https://www.facebook.com/help/
> 273947702950567/?helpref=hc_fnav
> <https://www.facebook.com/help/273947702950567/?helpref=hc_fnav>
> The Facebook mobile app may provide a more accessible experience
> for some users.
> Content in this feed can also be found on our blog at:
> http://our.blog.edu"
>
> Anything else folks can think of, focusing on what is within a content
> creator/editor's control? Thanks!
>
> Also, assuming I haven't overlooked anything obvious here, if you agree
> with me, I'd urge folks to let FB know that they should really add the
> ability to edit the alt text of images. It seems very strange that they
> devoted so much time and energy to enabling the automatic text
> alternatives, but did not provide humans the ability to edit them. Doing
> that must be trivial, by comparison, don't you think?
>
> Best,
> Rob
>
> P.S. Thanks to Queen's University
> <http://www.queensu.ca/accessibility/how-info/social-media-accessibility>;
> for many of these tips.
>
> --
> Robert Fentress
> Senior Accessibility Solutions Designer
> 540.231.1255 <(540)%20231-1255>
>
> Technology-enhanced Learning & Online Strategies
> Assistive Technologies
> 1180 Torgersen Hall
> 620 Drillfield Drive (0434)
> Blacksburg, Virginia 24061
>
--
Robert Fentress
Senior Accessibility Solutions Designer
540.231.1255
Technology-enhanced Learning & Online Strategies
Assistive Technologies
1180 Torgersen Hall
620 Drillfield Drive (0434)
Blacksburg, Virginia 24061
From: Emma Duke-Williams
Date: Mon, Feb 13 2017 9:41AM
Subject: Re: Dealing with Facebook's problematic automatic alt text generation (and other issues)
← Previous message | Next message →
A quick query - how do you see the suggested alt text? I've never seen
it. I use Facebook set to UK English, if that makes a difference - I
know they sometimes roll out updates by region.
I'd agree, from a pure usage point of view, that it's easier to get
descriptions on images in the album creation mode, than in the upload
an image.
Emma
On 13 February 2017 at 16:06, Robert Fentress < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hello, all.
>
> I'm curious if folks have developed strategies for dealing with Facebook's
> automatic alt text generation. As many of you probably know, Facebook now
> analyzes images uploaded into its system and automatically generates text
> alternatives for those images. This is great for when your average user,
> who is unlikely to ever provide an alternative, uploads images. However,
> for those who are actually trying to do things properly, this is
> problematic, since there is no way (that I've been able to determine yet)
> for editing these text alternatives, and they are frequently inadequate or
> incorrect, or Facebook just adds alt text saying they couldn't make heads
> nor tails of the image.
>
> Currently, I'm recommending the following and wonder if it comports with
> what others are doing or recommending:
>
> 1. Upload image to an album.
> 2. Examine the automatically-generated alt text to see if it is adequate.
> 3. If so, you're done. If not, continue to next step.
> 4. Add a brief description below the image in the album, where it says,
> "Say something about this photo..."
> 5. From there, if necessary, share the photo to your timeline. This is
> recommended, rather than uploading the image directly from your timeline,
> because, if you upload to your album and add the description there, when
> you share to your timeline, the description comes over with the image, but
> there is still a place for you to add text for your post that is separate
> from the description. So, the post text can be different from your image
> text alternative and the alternative text is in one place in your album.
>
> A problem with this is that the actual image alt attribute is still
> incorrect or inadequate. Should one say so in the description?
>
> Another issue I've encountered is that, for Pages, one cannot add alt text
> to the cover photo and Facebook automatically sets the alt attribute of
> this image to null. This may be the best default solution, since that
> cover photo is often purely decorative. However, the problem is that that
> image is also wrapped in an anchor tag and is the only content of that
> link. This causes the href of the anchor tag to be read. I haven't been
> able to come up with a workaround for that one. Ideas?
>
> Obviously there are other problems with FB architecturally, but I'm
> focusing on strategies for content creators/editors and trying to deal with
> the things we have some control over.
>
> Other strategies recommended in that regard, for Pages in Facebook, include:
>
> - Host any videos on YouTube (captioned, of course, with described
> versions, as appropriate) and link to them from within Facebook, rather
> than uploading videos to Facebook directly, since, among other things, FB's
> video player has poor keyboard support.
> - If images of flyers advertising events are uploaded, include links to
> accessible PDFs and Word docs (if available) of the flyers as well, and
> make sure info in flyer image is replicated in post content.
> - Provide an alternate channel for users to access content, such as
> cross-posting to an accessible blog.
> - In the About section of the Page
> - Under Contact Info, add phone, and email, and a link to an
> accessible contact form.
> Under Story, include something like:
> "Facebook Accessibility:
> https://www.facebook.com/help/273947702950567/?helpref=hc_fnav
> The Facebook mobile app may provide a more accessible experience for
> some users.
> Content in this feed can also be found on our blog at:
> http://our.blog.edu"
>
> Anything else folks can think of, focusing on what is within a content
> creator/editor's control? Thanks!
>
> Also, assuming I haven't overlooked anything obvious here, if you agree
> with me, I'd urge folks to let FB know that they should really add the
> ability to edit the alt text of images. It seems very strange that they
> devoted so much time and energy to enabling the automatic text
> alternatives, but did not provide humans the ability to edit them. Doing
> that must be trivial, by comparison, don't you think?
>
> Best,
> Rob
>
> P.S. Thanks to Queen's University
> <http://www.queensu.ca/accessibility/how-info/social-media-accessibility>;
> for many of these tips.
>
> --
> Robert Fentress
> Senior Accessibility Solutions Designer
> 540.231.1255
>
> Technology-enhanced Learning & Online Strategies
> Assistive Technologies
> 1180 Torgersen Hall
> 620 Drillfield Drive (0434)
> Blacksburg, Virginia 24061
> > > > --
Emma Duke-Williams:
Blog: http://emmadukewilliams.co.uk
Twitter: http://twitter.com/emmadw
From: Robert Fentress
Date: Mon, Feb 13 2017 9:47AM
Subject: Re: Dealing with Facebook's problematic automatic alt text generation (and other issues)
← Previous message | Next message →
Emma,
In Chrome, I simply right-click on the image and choose "Inspect" in the
context menu that appears. This opens a code view where I can see the alt
attribute of the image for the rendered page view. Similar functionality
exists in Firefox, Internet Explorer, and Safari (if enabled). Hope I
understood your question correctly.
-Rob
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Emma Duke-Williams <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> A quick query - how do you see the suggested alt text? I've never seen
> it. I use Facebook set to UK English, if that makes a difference - I
> know they sometimes roll out updates by region.
>
> I'd agree, from a pure usage point of view, that it's easier to get
> descriptions on images in the album creation mode, than in the upload
> an image.
>
> Emma
>
> On 13 February 2017 at 16:06, Robert Fentress < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Hello, all.
> >
> > I'm curious if folks have developed strategies for dealing with
> Facebook's
> > automatic alt text generation. As many of you probably know, Facebook
> now
> > analyzes images uploaded into its system and automatically generates text
> > alternatives for those images. This is great for when your average user,
> > who is unlikely to ever provide an alternative, uploads images. However,
> > for those who are actually trying to do things properly, this is
> > problematic, since there is no way (that I've been able to determine yet)
> > for editing these text alternatives, and they are frequently inadequate
> or
> > incorrect, or Facebook just adds alt text saying they couldn't make heads
> > nor tails of the image.
> >
> > Currently, I'm recommending the following and wonder if it comports with
> > what others are doing or recommending:
> >
> > 1. Upload image to an album.
> > 2. Examine the automatically-generated alt text to see if it is
> adequate.
> > 3. If so, you're done. If not, continue to next step.
> > 4. Add a brief description below the image in the album, where it
> says,
> > "Say something about this photo..."
> > 5. From there, if necessary, share the photo to your timeline. This
> is
> > recommended, rather than uploading the image directly from your
> timeline,
> > because, if you upload to your album and add the description there,
> when
> > you share to your timeline, the description comes over with the
> image, but
> > there is still a place for you to add text for your post that is
> separate
> > from the description. So, the post text can be different from your
> image
> > text alternative and the alternative text is in one place in your
> album.
> >
> > A problem with this is that the actual image alt attribute is still
> > incorrect or inadequate. Should one say so in the description?
> >
> > Another issue I've encountered is that, for Pages, one cannot add alt
> text
> > to the cover photo and Facebook automatically sets the alt attribute of
> > this image to null. This may be the best default solution, since that
> > cover photo is often purely decorative. However, the problem is that
> that
> > image is also wrapped in an anchor tag and is the only content of that
> > link. This causes the href of the anchor tag to be read. I haven't been
> > able to come up with a workaround for that one. Ideas?
> >
> > Obviously there are other problems with FB architecturally, but I'm
> > focusing on strategies for content creators/editors and trying to deal
> with
> > the things we have some control over.
> >
> > Other strategies recommended in that regard, for Pages in Facebook,
> include:
> >
> > - Host any videos on YouTube (captioned, of course, with described
> > versions, as appropriate) and link to them from within Facebook,
> rather
> > than uploading videos to Facebook directly, since, among other
> things, FB's
> > video player has poor keyboard support.
> > - If images of flyers advertising events are uploaded, include links
> to
> > accessible PDFs and Word docs (if available) of the flyers as well,
> and
> > make sure info in flyer image is replicated in post content.
> > - Provide an alternate channel for users to access content, such as
> > cross-posting to an accessible blog.
> > - In the About section of the Page
> > - Under Contact Info, add phone, and email, and a link to an
> > accessible contact form.
> > Under Story, include something like:
> > "Facebook Accessibility:
> > https://www.facebook.com/help/273947702950567/?helpref=hc_fnav
> > The Facebook mobile app may provide a more accessible experience
> for
> > some users.
> > Content in this feed can also be found on our blog at:
> > http://our.blog.edu"
> >
> > Anything else folks can think of, focusing on what is within a content
> > creator/editor's control? Thanks!
> >
> > Also, assuming I haven't overlooked anything obvious here, if you agree
> > with me, I'd urge folks to let FB know that they should really add the
> > ability to edit the alt text of images. It seems very strange that they
> > devoted so much time and energy to enabling the automatic text
> > alternatives, but did not provide humans the ability to edit them. Doing
> > that must be trivial, by comparison, don't you think?
> >
> > Best,
> > Rob
> >
> > P.S. Thanks to Queen's University
> > <http://www.queensu.ca/accessibility/how-info/social-media-accessibility
> >
> > for many of these tips.
> >
> > --
> > Robert Fentress
> > Senior Accessibility Solutions Designer
> > 540.231.1255
> >
> > Technology-enhanced Learning & Online Strategies
> > Assistive Technologies
> > 1180 Torgersen Hall
> > 620 Drillfield Drive (0434)
> > Blacksburg, Virginia 24061
> > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Emma Duke-Williams:
>
> Blog: http://emmadukewilliams.co.uk
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/emmadw
> > > > >
--
Robert Fentress
Senior Accessibility Solutions Designer
540.231.1255
Technology-enhanced Learning & Online Strategies
Assistive Technologies
1180 Torgersen Hall
620 Drillfield Drive (0434)
Blacksburg, Virginia 24061
From: Emma Duke-Williams
Date: Mon, Feb 13 2017 10:02AM
Subject: Re: Dealing with Facebook's problematic automatic alt text generation (and other issues)
← Previous message | Next message →
Doh! Never thought of that - I thought they'd have put it somewhere
visible to all, rather than just those who know what they're doing.
Emma
On 13 February 2017 at 16:47, Robert Fentress < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Emma,
>
> In Chrome, I simply right-click on the image and choose "Inspect" in the
> context menu that appears. This opens a code view where I can see the alt
> attribute of the image for the rendered page view. Similar functionality
> exists in Firefox, Internet Explorer, and Safari (if enabled). Hope I
> understood your question correctly.
>
> -Rob
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Emma Duke-Williams <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> A quick query - how do you see the suggested alt text? I've never seen
>> it. I use Facebook set to UK English, if that makes a difference - I
>> know they sometimes roll out updates by region.
>>
>> I'd agree, from a pure usage point of view, that it's easier to get
>> descriptions on images in the album creation mode, than in the upload
>> an image.
>>
>> Emma
>>
>> On 13 February 2017 at 16:06, Robert Fentress < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>> > Hello, all.
>> >
>> > I'm curious if folks have developed strategies for dealing with
>> Facebook's
>> > automatic alt text generation. As many of you probably know, Facebook
>> now
>> > analyzes images uploaded into its system and automatically generates text
>> > alternatives for those images. This is great for when your average user,
>> > who is unlikely to ever provide an alternative, uploads images. However,
>> > for those who are actually trying to do things properly, this is
>> > problematic, since there is no way (that I've been able to determine yet)
>> > for editing these text alternatives, and they are frequently inadequate
>> or
>> > incorrect, or Facebook just adds alt text saying they couldn't make heads
>> > nor tails of the image.
>> >
>> > Currently, I'm recommending the following and wonder if it comports with
>> > what others are doing or recommending:
>> >
>> > 1. Upload image to an album.
>> > 2. Examine the automatically-generated alt text to see if it is
>> adequate.
>> > 3. If so, you're done. If not, continue to next step.
>> > 4. Add a brief description below the image in the album, where it
>> says,
>> > "Say something about this photo..."
>> > 5. From there, if necessary, share the photo to your timeline. This
>> is
>> > recommended, rather than uploading the image directly from your
>> timeline,
>> > because, if you upload to your album and add the description there,
>> when
>> > you share to your timeline, the description comes over with the
>> image, but
>> > there is still a place for you to add text for your post that is
>> separate
>> > from the description. So, the post text can be different from your
>> image
>> > text alternative and the alternative text is in one place in your
>> album.
>> >
>> > A problem with this is that the actual image alt attribute is still
>> > incorrect or inadequate. Should one say so in the description?
>> >
>> > Another issue I've encountered is that, for Pages, one cannot add alt
>> text
>> > to the cover photo and Facebook automatically sets the alt attribute of
>> > this image to null. This may be the best default solution, since that
>> > cover photo is often purely decorative. However, the problem is that
>> that
>> > image is also wrapped in an anchor tag and is the only content of that
>> > link. This causes the href of the anchor tag to be read. I haven't been
>> > able to come up with a workaround for that one. Ideas?
>> >
>> > Obviously there are other problems with FB architecturally, but I'm
>> > focusing on strategies for content creators/editors and trying to deal
>> with
>> > the things we have some control over.
>> >
>> > Other strategies recommended in that regard, for Pages in Facebook,
>> include:
>> >
>> > - Host any videos on YouTube (captioned, of course, with described
>> > versions, as appropriate) and link to them from within Facebook,
>> rather
>> > than uploading videos to Facebook directly, since, among other
>> things, FB's
>> > video player has poor keyboard support.
>> > - If images of flyers advertising events are uploaded, include links
>> to
>> > accessible PDFs and Word docs (if available) of the flyers as well,
>> and
>> > make sure info in flyer image is replicated in post content.
>> > - Provide an alternate channel for users to access content, such as
>> > cross-posting to an accessible blog.
>> > - In the About section of the Page
>> > - Under Contact Info, add phone, and email, and a link to an
>> > accessible contact form.
>> > Under Story, include something like:
>> > "Facebook Accessibility:
>> > https://www.facebook.com/help/273947702950567/?helpref=hc_fnav
>> > The Facebook mobile app may provide a more accessible experience
>> for
>> > some users.
>> > Content in this feed can also be found on our blog at:
>> > http://our.blog.edu"
>> >
>> > Anything else folks can think of, focusing on what is within a content
>> > creator/editor's control? Thanks!
>> >
>> > Also, assuming I haven't overlooked anything obvious here, if you agree
>> > with me, I'd urge folks to let FB know that they should really add the
>> > ability to edit the alt text of images. It seems very strange that they
>> > devoted so much time and energy to enabling the automatic text
>> > alternatives, but did not provide humans the ability to edit them. Doing
>> > that must be trivial, by comparison, don't you think?
>> >
>> > Best,
>> > Rob
>> >
>> > P.S. Thanks to Queen's University
>> > <http://www.queensu.ca/accessibility/how-info/social-media-accessibility
>> >
>> > for many of these tips.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Robert Fentress
>> > Senior Accessibility Solutions Designer
>> > 540.231.1255
>> >
>> > Technology-enhanced Learning & Online Strategies
>> > Assistive Technologies
>> > 1180 Torgersen Hall
>> > 620 Drillfield Drive (0434)
>> > Blacksburg, Virginia 24061
>> > >> > >> > >> > >>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Emma Duke-Williams:
>>
>> Blog: http://emmadukewilliams.co.uk
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/emmadw
>> >> >> >> >>
>
>
>
> --
> Robert Fentress
> Senior Accessibility Solutions Designer
> 540.231.1255
>
> Technology-enhanced Learning & Online Strategies
> Assistive Technologies
> 1180 Torgersen Hall
> 620 Drillfield Drive (0434)
> Blacksburg, Virginia 24061
> > > > --
Emma Duke-Williams:
Blog: http://emmadukewilliams.co.uk
Twitter: http://twitter.com/emmadw
From: Karl Brown
Date: Tue, Feb 14 2017 3:40AM
Subject: Re: Dealing with Facebook's problematic automatic alt text generation (and other issues)
← Previous message | Next message →
Hi Robert,
For the cover photo, maybe changing the default to "cover photo" as that
seems to be where the anchor goes (though that itself is hardly descriptive
or of fully equivalent purpose). Alternatively give authors the option of
changing where the URL points to and pulling the alt attribute value from
there?
On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Emma Duke-Williams <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Doh! Never thought of that - I thought they'd have put it somewhere
> visible to all, rather than just those who know what they're doing.
>
> Emma
>
> On 13 February 2017 at 16:47, Robert Fentress < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > Emma,
> >
> > In Chrome, I simply right-click on the image and choose "Inspect" in the
> > context menu that appears. This opens a code view where I can see the
> alt
> > attribute of the image for the rendered page view. Similar functionality
> > exists in Firefox, Internet Explorer, and Safari (if enabled). Hope I
> > understood your question correctly.
> >
> > -Rob
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Emma Duke-Williams <
> > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >
> >> A quick query - how do you see the suggested alt text? I've never seen
> >> it. I use Facebook set to UK English, if that makes a difference - I
> >> know they sometimes roll out updates by region.
> >>
> >> I'd agree, from a pure usage point of view, that it's easier to get
> >> descriptions on images in the album creation mode, than in the upload
> >> an image.
> >>
> >> Emma
> >>
> >> On 13 February 2017 at 16:06, Robert Fentress < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> >> > Hello, all.
> >> >
> >> > I'm curious if folks have developed strategies for dealing with
> >> Facebook's
> >> > automatic alt text generation. As many of you probably know, Facebook
> >> now
> >> > analyzes images uploaded into its system and automatically generates
> text
> >> > alternatives for those images. This is great for when your average
> user,
> >> > who is unlikely to ever provide an alternative, uploads images.
> However,
> >> > for those who are actually trying to do things properly, this is
> >> > problematic, since there is no way (that I've been able to determine
> yet)
> >> > for editing these text alternatives, and they are frequently
> inadequate
> >> or
> >> > incorrect, or Facebook just adds alt text saying they couldn't make
> heads
> >> > nor tails of the image.
> >> >
> >> > Currently, I'm recommending the following and wonder if it comports
> with
> >> > what others are doing or recommending:
> >> >
> >> > 1. Upload image to an album.
> >> > 2. Examine the automatically-generated alt text to see if it is
> >> adequate.
> >> > 3. If so, you're done. If not, continue to next step.
> >> > 4. Add a brief description below the image in the album, where it
> >> says,
> >> > "Say something about this photo..."
> >> > 5. From there, if necessary, share the photo to your timeline.
> This
> >> is
> >> > recommended, rather than uploading the image directly from your
> >> timeline,
> >> > because, if you upload to your album and add the description there,
> >> when
> >> > you share to your timeline, the description comes over with the
> >> image, but
> >> > there is still a place for you to add text for your post that is
> >> separate
> >> > from the description. So, the post text can be different from your
> >> image
> >> > text alternative and the alternative text is in one place in your
> >> album.
> >> >
> >> > A problem with this is that the actual image alt attribute is still
> >> > incorrect or inadequate. Should one say so in the description?
> >> >
> >> > Another issue I've encountered is that, for Pages, one cannot add alt
> >> text
> >> > to the cover photo and Facebook automatically sets the alt attribute
> of
> >> > this image to null. This may be the best default solution, since that
> >> > cover photo is often purely decorative. However, the problem is that
> >> that
> >> > image is also wrapped in an anchor tag and is the only content of that
> >> > link. This causes the href of the anchor tag to be read. I haven't
> been
> >> > able to come up with a workaround for that one. Ideas?
> >> >
> >> > Obviously there are other problems with FB architecturally, but I'm
> >> > focusing on strategies for content creators/editors and trying to deal
> >> with
> >> > the things we have some control over.
> >> >
> >> > Other strategies recommended in that regard, for Pages in Facebook,
> >> include:
> >> >
> >> > - Host any videos on YouTube (captioned, of course, with described
> >> > versions, as appropriate) and link to them from within Facebook,
> >> rather
> >> > than uploading videos to Facebook directly, since, among other
> >> things, FB's
> >> > video player has poor keyboard support.
> >> > - If images of flyers advertising events are uploaded, include
> links
> >> to
> >> > accessible PDFs and Word docs (if available) of the flyers as well,
> >> and
> >> > make sure info in flyer image is replicated in post content.
> >> > - Provide an alternate channel for users to access content, such as
> >> > cross-posting to an accessible blog.
> >> > - In the About section of the Page
> >> > - Under Contact Info, add phone, and email, and a link to an
> >> > accessible contact form.
> >> > Under Story, include something like:
> >> > "Facebook Accessibility:
> >> > https://www.facebook.com/help/273947702950567/?helpref=hc_fnav
> >> > The Facebook mobile app may provide a more accessible experience
> >> for
> >> > some users.
> >> > Content in this feed can also be found on our blog at:
> >> > http://our.blog.edu"
> >> >
> >> > Anything else folks can think of, focusing on what is within a content
> >> > creator/editor's control? Thanks!
> >> >
> >> > Also, assuming I haven't overlooked anything obvious here, if you
> agree
> >> > with me, I'd urge folks to let FB know that they should really add the
> >> > ability to edit the alt text of images. It seems very strange that
> they
> >> > devoted so much time and energy to enabling the automatic text
> >> > alternatives, but did not provide humans the ability to edit them.
> Doing
> >> > that must be trivial, by comparison, don't you think?
> >> >
> >> > Best,
> >> > Rob
> >> >
> >> > P.S. Thanks to Queen's University
> >> > <http://www.queensu.ca/accessibility/how-info/social-
> media-accessibility
> >> >
> >> > for many of these tips.
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > Robert Fentress
> >> > Senior Accessibility Solutions Designer
> >> > 540.231.1255
> >> >
> >> > Technology-enhanced Learning & Online Strategies
> >> > Assistive Technologies
> >> > 1180 Torgersen Hall
> >> > 620 Drillfield Drive (0434)
> >> > Blacksburg, Virginia 24061
> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Emma Duke-Williams:
> >>
> >> Blog: http://emmadukewilliams.co.uk
> >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/emmadw
> >> > >> > >> > >> > >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Robert Fentress
> > Senior Accessibility Solutions Designer
> > 540.231.1255
> >
> > Technology-enhanced Learning & Online Strategies
> > Assistive Technologies
> > 1180 Torgersen Hall
> > 620 Drillfield Drive (0434)
> > Blacksburg, Virginia 24061
> > > > > > > > >
>
>
> --
> Emma Duke-Williams:
>
> Blog: http://emmadukewilliams.co.uk
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/emmadw
> > > > >
--
Karl Brown
Twitter: @kbdevelops
Skype: kbdevelopment
Professional Certificate Web Accessibility Compliance (Distinction),
University of South Australia, 2015
From: Robert Fentress
Date: Tue, Feb 14 2017 6:37AM
Subject: Re: Dealing with Facebook's problematic automatic alt text generation (and other issues)
← Previous message | No next message
Hi, Karl.
My thought was that FB could put screen reader-only text within that link
that reads "view/comment on cover photo" or something like that but,
really, you should be able to edit the alternative text for images anywhere
they appear. All that is academic though, since none of that is currently
within the user's control.
Best,
Rob
On Tue, Feb 14, 2017 at 5:40 AM, Karl Brown < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> Hi Robert,
>
> For the cover photo, maybe changing the default to "cover photo" as that
> seems to be where the anchor goes (though that itself is hardly descriptive
> or of fully equivalent purpose). Alternatively give authors the option of
> changing where the URL points to and pulling the alt attribute value from
> there?
>
> On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 5:02 PM, Emma Duke-Williams <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> > Doh! Never thought of that - I thought they'd have put it somewhere
> > visible to all, rather than just those who know what they're doing.
> >
> > Emma
> >
> > On 13 February 2017 at 16:47, Robert Fentress < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > > Emma,
> > >
> > > In Chrome, I simply right-click on the image and choose "Inspect" in
> the
> > > context menu that appears. This opens a code view where I can see the
> > alt
> > > attribute of the image for the rendered page view. Similar
> functionality
> > > exists in Firefox, Internet Explorer, and Safari (if enabled). Hope I
> > > understood your question correctly.
> > >
> > > -Rob
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 13, 2017 at 11:41 AM, Emma Duke-Williams <
> > > = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > >
> > >> A quick query - how do you see the suggested alt text? I've never seen
> > >> it. I use Facebook set to UK English, if that makes a difference - I
> > >> know they sometimes roll out updates by region.
> > >>
> > >> I'd agree, from a pure usage point of view, that it's easier to get
> > >> descriptions on images in the album creation mode, than in the upload
> > >> an image.
> > >>
> > >> Emma
> > >>
> > >> On 13 February 2017 at 16:06, Robert Fentress < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> > >> > Hello, all.
> > >> >
> > >> > I'm curious if folks have developed strategies for dealing with
> > >> Facebook's
> > >> > automatic alt text generation. As many of you probably know,
> Facebook
> > >> now
> > >> > analyzes images uploaded into its system and automatically generates
> > text
> > >> > alternatives for those images. This is great for when your average
> > user,
> > >> > who is unlikely to ever provide an alternative, uploads images.
> > However,
> > >> > for those who are actually trying to do things properly, this is
> > >> > problematic, since there is no way (that I've been able to determine
> > yet)
> > >> > for editing these text alternatives, and they are frequently
> > inadequate
> > >> or
> > >> > incorrect, or Facebook just adds alt text saying they couldn't make
> > heads
> > >> > nor tails of the image.
> > >> >
> > >> > Currently, I'm recommending the following and wonder if it comports
> > with
> > >> > what others are doing or recommending:
> > >> >
> > >> > 1. Upload image to an album.
> > >> > 2. Examine the automatically-generated alt text to see if it is
> > >> adequate.
> > >> > 3. If so, you're done. If not, continue to next step.
> > >> > 4. Add a brief description below the image in the album, where it
> > >> says,
> > >> > "Say something about this photo..."
> > >> > 5. From there, if necessary, share the photo to your timeline.
> > This
> > >> is
> > >> > recommended, rather than uploading the image directly from your
> > >> timeline,
> > >> > because, if you upload to your album and add the description
> there,
> > >> when
> > >> > you share to your timeline, the description comes over with the
> > >> image, but
> > >> > there is still a place for you to add text for your post that is
> > >> separate
> > >> > from the description. So, the post text can be different from
> your
> > >> image
> > >> > text alternative and the alternative text is in one place in your
> > >> album.
> > >> >
> > >> > A problem with this is that the actual image alt attribute is still
> > >> > incorrect or inadequate. Should one say so in the description?
> > >> >
> > >> > Another issue I've encountered is that, for Pages, one cannot add
> alt
> > >> text
> > >> > to the cover photo and Facebook automatically sets the alt attribute
> > of
> > >> > this image to null. This may be the best default solution, since
> that
> > >> > cover photo is often purely decorative. However, the problem is
> that
> > >> that
> > >> > image is also wrapped in an anchor tag and is the only content of
> that
> > >> > link. This causes the href of the anchor tag to be read. I haven't
> > been
> > >> > able to come up with a workaround for that one. Ideas?
> > >> >
> > >> > Obviously there are other problems with FB architecturally, but I'm
> > >> > focusing on strategies for content creators/editors and trying to
> deal
> > >> with
> > >> > the things we have some control over.
> > >> >
> > >> > Other strategies recommended in that regard, for Pages in Facebook,
> > >> include:
> > >> >
> > >> > - Host any videos on YouTube (captioned, of course, with
> described
> > >> > versions, as appropriate) and link to them from within Facebook,
> > >> rather
> > >> > than uploading videos to Facebook directly, since, among other
> > >> things, FB's
> > >> > video player has poor keyboard support.
> > >> > - If images of flyers advertising events are uploaded, include
> > links
> > >> to
> > >> > accessible PDFs and Word docs (if available) of the flyers as
> well,
> > >> and
> > >> > make sure info in flyer image is replicated in post content.
> > >> > - Provide an alternate channel for users to access content, such
> as
> > >> > cross-posting to an accessible blog.
> > >> > - In the About section of the Page
> > >> > - Under Contact Info, add phone, and email, and a link to an
> > >> > accessible contact form.
> > >> > Under Story, include something like:
> > >> > "Facebook Accessibility:
> > >> > https://www.facebook.com/help/273947702950567/?helpref=hc_
> fnav
> > >> > The Facebook mobile app may provide a more accessible
> experience
> > >> for
> > >> > some users.
> > >> > Content in this feed can also be found on our blog at:
> > >> > http://our.blog.edu"
> > >> >
> > >> > Anything else folks can think of, focusing on what is within a
> content
> > >> > creator/editor's control? Thanks!
> > >> >
> > >> > Also, assuming I haven't overlooked anything obvious here, if you
> > agree
> > >> > with me, I'd urge folks to let FB know that they should really add
> the
> > >> > ability to edit the alt text of images. It seems very strange that
> > they
> > >> > devoted so much time and energy to enabling the automatic text
> > >> > alternatives, but did not provide humans the ability to edit them.
> > Doing
> > >> > that must be trivial, by comparison, don't you think?
> > >> >
> > >> > Best,
> > >> > Rob
> > >> >
> > >> > P.S. Thanks to Queen's University
> > >> > <http://www.queensu.ca/accessibility/how-info/social-
> > media-accessibility
> > >> >
> > >> > for many of these tips.
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Robert Fentress
> > >> > Senior Accessibility Solutions Designer
> > >> > 540.231.1255
> > >> >
> > >> > Technology-enhanced Learning & Online Strategies
> > >> > Assistive Technologies
> > >> > 1180 Torgersen Hall
> > >> > 620 Drillfield Drive (0434)
> > >> > Blacksburg, Virginia 24061
> > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Emma Duke-Williams:
> > >>
> > >> Blog: http://emmadukewilliams.co.uk
> > >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/emmadw
> > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Robert Fentress
> > > Senior Accessibility Solutions Designer
> > > 540.231.1255
> > >
> > > Technology-enhanced Learning & Online Strategies
> > > Assistive Technologies
> > > 1180 Torgersen Hall
> > > 620 Drillfield Drive (0434)
> > > Blacksburg, Virginia 24061
> > > > > > > > > > > > > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Emma Duke-Williams:
> >
> > Blog: http://emmadukewilliams.co.uk
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/emmadw
> > > > > > > > > >
>
>
>
> --
> Karl Brown
> Twitter: @kbdevelops
> Skype: kbdevelopment
>
> Professional Certificate Web Accessibility Compliance (Distinction),
> University of South Australia, 2015
> > > > >
--
Robert Fentress
Senior Accessibility Solutions Designer
540.231.1255
Technology-enhanced Learning & Online Strategies
Assistive Technologies
1180 Torgersen Hall
620 Drillfield Drive (0434)
Blacksburg, Virginia 24061