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Number of posts in this thread: 7 (In chronological order)

From: Philip Kiff
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2018 7:20AM
Subject: PDF Forms Software - Adobe LiveCycle vs Adobe Experience Manager?
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I'm having difficulty getting some basic information from Adobe about
their Adobe Experience Manager (AEM) software, and how exactly one might
use it to replace LiveCycle in the development of PDF forms.

Does anyone on this list use Adobe Experience Manager to create
accessible PDF forms?

Can I use it as an  "upgrade" for LiveCycle Designer, install it on a
single machine, and use it to edit PDFs originally created by LiveCycle?

Phil.

Philip Kiff
D4K Communications

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2018 7:54AM
Subject: Re: PDF Forms Software - Adobe LiveCycle vs Adobe Experience Manager?
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I don't think that you can upgrade from LiveCycle Designer as Form Designer which appears to be part of the Experience Manager tools is branded as a "new product" but I'll see if I can find out how individuals or small businesses can get Form Designer/Experience Manager. Last time I checked this was an enterprise solution, not a stand-alone product.

Cheers, Karen

From: chagnon
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2018 1:18PM
Subject: Re: PDF Forms Software - Adobe LiveCycle vs Adobe Experience Manager?
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Yes, it's tough to get info about forms and Experience Manager from Adobe.

I believe it's SAAS (software as a service) -- cloud-based software that is not installed on your computer. From what I've heard, it also does not create fully accessible PDF forms.

Did you know that Adobe InDesign has decent forms tools? It does a great job on regular forms (even those that are complex with many fields in a table matrix, for example). The visual design tools in InDesign are, of course, amazing. Advanced scripting can be added in Acrobat Pro.

We create forms (and run classes in making accessible forms) and most can be exported to a fully accessible PDF that needs little to no tweaking afterwards in Acrobat Pro. Real time-saver.

It's a decent workflow for most forms, and I believe Adobe is working to improve its forms utilities and capabilities.

I used to teach Live Cycle eons ago (and JetForms and others from the 1990s) and my firm used to sell the software. I hated it so much that I dropped it from our line and stopped teaching it, too.

On the other hand, I'm very happy teaching forms with InDesign and Acrobat.

— — —
Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
— — —
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting ' training ' development ' design ' sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
— — —
Latest blog-newsletter – Accessibility Tips at www.PubCom.com/blog

From: Philip Kiff
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2018 3:40PM
Subject: Re: PDF Forms Software - Adobe LiveCycle vs Adobe Experience Manager?
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On 2018-08-20 3:18 PM, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:
> [....] Did you know that Adobe InDesign has decent forms tools?
No I did not!

> [....] We create forms (and run classes in making accessible forms) and most can be exported to a fully accessible PDF that needs little to no tweaking afterwards in Acrobat Pro. Real time-saver.
>
> It's a decent workflow for most forms, and I believe Adobe is working to improve its forms utilities and capabilities.
That sounds like a much better workflow than the one used by one
designer in the provincial government here, which is: create the
graphics and layout in an old version of InDesign (CS2 or 3), export to
PDF, then open the PDF in LiveCycle 9 (ES2), then save as fillable PDF.
Which was the actual source of the files I tried to make accessible last
week!

Some of the forms I work with require "dynamic" form properties because
users are asked to insert additional rows of data and the form expands
in length to allow for additional rows as needed. I wonder if InDesign
can accommodate "dynamic" forms as well as "static" ones?

Phil.

From: chagnon
Date: Mon, Aug 20 2018 6:24PM
Subject: Re: PDF Forms Software - Adobe LiveCycle vs Adobe Experience Manager?
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Quote: " create the graphics and layout in an old version of InDesign (CS2
or 3) "
Gosh, that's such an outdated program! Can't create an accessible anything
with it. Encourage your designer to upgrade to the latest version of Adobe
Creative Suite, CC:2018 at this time.

Quote: " Some of the forms I work with require "dynamic" form properties
because users are asked to insert additional rows of data and the form
expands in length to allow for additional rows as needed. I wonder if
InDesign can accommodate "dynamic" forms as well as "static" ones? "

Not at this time; that kind of programming to make the form dynamic requires
scripting, which can be done in Acrobat but not in InDesign. I'm hoping we
can have that capability eventually built into InDesign, but I'm not in
control of what Adobe does. I can only ask and request features at
www.InDesign.UserVoice.com

--Bevi
- - -
Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
- - -
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting . training . development . design . sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
- - -
Latest blog-newsletter - Accessibility Tips at www.PubCom.com/blog

From: Philip Kiff
Date: Tue, Aug 21 2018 9:01AM
Subject: Re: PDF Forms Software - Adobe LiveCycle vs Adobe Experience Manager?
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>> Quote: " create the graphics and layout in an old version of InDesign (CS2
>> or 3) "
> Gosh, that's such an outdated program! Can't create an accessible anything
> with it. Encourage your designer to upgrade to the latest version of Adobe
> Creative Suite, CC:2018 at this time.
Yes, I've sent that advice along before. These days especially, using
up-to-date software is critical for creating accessible PDFs. That's
part of why I'm trying to find a replacement for LiveCycle.

Thanks again for the tip about using (the current version of) InDesign.
I can certainly start using that immediately as an option for some forms.

Phil.

On 2018-08-20 8:24 PM, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:
> Quote: " create the graphics and layout in an old version of InDesign (CS2
> or 3) "
> Gosh, that's such an outdated program! Can't create an accessible anything
> with it. Encourage your designer to upgrade to the latest version of Adobe
> Creative Suite, CC:2018 at this time.
>
> Quote: " Some of the forms I work with require "dynamic" form properties
> because users are asked to insert additional rows of data and the form
> expands in length to allow for additional rows as needed. I wonder if
> InDesign can accommodate "dynamic" forms as well as "static" ones? "
>
> Not at this time; that kind of programming to make the form dynamic requires
> scripting, which can be done in Acrobat but not in InDesign. I'm hoping we
> can have that capability eventually built into InDesign, but I'm not in
> control of what Adobe does. I can only ask and request features at
> www.InDesign.UserVoice.com
>
> --Bevi
> - - -
> Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> - - -
> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
> consulting . training . development . design . sec. 508 services
> Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
> - - -
> Latest blog-newsletter - Accessibility Tips at www.PubCom.com/blog
>
>

From: L Snider
Date: Tue, Aug 21 2018 8:29PM
Subject: Re: PDF Forms Software - Adobe LiveCycle vs Adobe Experience Manager?
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I totally agree with Bevi, the current version of InDesign is awesome, once
you know everything to do. I used to dislike it and wouldn't use for a
while, but now it is top notch for most things. Glad you are looking at the
current version.

In my experience forms work quite well overall.

Cheers

Lisa

On Tue, Aug 21, 2018 at 10:01 AM, Philip Kiff < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Quote: " create the graphics and layout in an old version of InDesign (CS2
>>> or 3) "
>>>
>> Gosh, that's such an outdated program! Can't create an accessible anything
>> with it. Encourage your designer to upgrade to the latest version of Adobe
>> Creative Suite, CC:2018 at this time.
>>
> Yes, I've sent that advice along before. These days especially, using
> up-to-date software is critical for creating accessible PDFs. That's part
> of why I'm trying to find a replacement for LiveCycle.
>
> Thanks again for the tip about using (the current version of) InDesign. I
> can certainly start using that immediately as an option for some forms.
>
> Phil.
>
>
> On 2018-08-20 8:24 PM, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:
>
>> Quote: " create the graphics and layout in an old version of InDesign (CS2
>> or 3) "
>> Gosh, that's such an outdated program! Can't create an accessible anything
>> with it. Encourage your designer to upgrade to the latest version of Adobe
>> Creative Suite, CC:2018 at this time.
>>
>> Quote: " Some of the forms I work with require "dynamic" form properties
>> because users are asked to insert additional rows of data and the form
>> expands in length to allow for additional rows as needed. I wonder if
>> InDesign can accommodate "dynamic" forms as well as "static" ones? "
>>
>> Not at this time; that kind of programming to make the form dynamic
>> requires
>> scripting, which can be done in Acrobat but not in InDesign. I'm hoping
>> we
>> can have that capability eventually built into InDesign, but I'm not in
>> control of what Adobe does. I can only ask and request features at
>> www.InDesign.UserVoice.com
>>
>> --Bevi
>> - - -
>> Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
>> - - -
>> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
>> consulting . training . development . design . sec. 508 services
>> Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
>> - - -
>> Latest blog-newsletter - Accessibility Tips at www.PubCom.com/blog
>>
>>