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Thread: Identifying focus rectangles

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From: mhysnm1964@gmail.com
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2019 12:24AM
Subject: Identifying focus rectangles
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All,



For a screen reader user, how can they detect focus rectangles when the
keyboard focus is on an element? Is this an requirement to check the CSS and
possibly the Javascript? Is there any other methods?

From: Patrick H. Lauke
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2019 2:17AM
Subject: Re: Identifying focus rectangles
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On 06/02/2019 07:24, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:

> For a screen reader user, how can they detect focus rectangles when the
> keyboard focus is on an element? Is this an requirement to check the CSS and
> possibly the Javascript? Is there any other methods?

I'd say that this is one of those SCs that are very difficult, if not
outright impossible, to test fully for a non-sighted user (as there can
be so many variations in how the element is being styled, and the
styling may even be placed programmatically on a parent/ancestor
element, requiring you to analyse potentially the whole DOM branch going
all the way to the root of the page).

P
--
Patrick H. Lauke

www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke

From: Jonathan Cohn
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2019 1:23PM
Subject: Re: Identifying focus rectangles
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I believe this is essentially the same answer I got when I asked on the BATS (Blind Accessibility Testing) group a year ago. One can certainly look to ensure that focus rectangles have not been disabled in the CSS, but it is near impossible to confirm they exist and have the proper color contrast ratios.

Jonathan Cohn

> On Feb 6, 2019, at 4:17 AM, Patrick H. Lauke < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> On 06/02/2019 07:24, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:
>
>> For a screen reader user, how can they detect focus rectangles when the
>> keyboard focus is on an element? Is this an requirement to check the CSS and
>> possibly the Javascript? Is there any other methods?
>
> I'd say that this is one of those SCs that are very difficult, if not outright impossible, to test fully for a non-sighted user (as there can be so many variations in how the element is being styled, and the styling may even be placed programmatically on a parent/ancestor element, requiring you to analyse potentially the whole DOM branch going all the way to the root of the page).
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> > > >

From: mhysnm1964@gmail.com
Date: Wed, Feb 06 2019 5:18PM
Subject: Re: Identifying focus rectangles
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Jonathan

Thanks for the confirmation. Would be nice if the accessibility tree
contained this information.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of
Jonathan Cohn
Sent: Thursday, 7 February 2019 7:24 AM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Identifying focus rectangles

I believe this is essentially the same answer I got when I asked on the BATS
(Blind Accessibility Testing) group a year ago. One can certainly look to
ensure that focus rectangles have not been disabled in the CSS, but it is
near impossible to confirm they exist and have the proper color contrast
ratios.

Jonathan Cohn

> On Feb 6, 2019, at 4:17 AM, Patrick H. Lauke < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:
>
> On 06/02/2019 07:24, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:
>
>> For a screen reader user, how can they detect focus rectangles when
>> the keyboard focus is on an element? Is this an requirement to check
>> the CSS and possibly the Javascript? Is there any other methods?
>
> I'd say that this is one of those SCs that are very difficult, if not
outright impossible, to test fully for a non-sighted user (as there can be
so many variations in how the element is being styled, and the styling may
even be placed programmatically on a parent/ancestor element, requiring you
to analyse potentially the whole DOM branch going all the way to the root of
the page).
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> http://webaim.org/discussion/archives

From: Farough, David (CFP/PSC)
Date: Thu, Feb 07 2019 10:15AM
Subject: Re: Identifying focus rectangles
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Actually, I don't believe that the colour contrast requirements even apply to the focus indicator. I would be much happier if they did. All that is required is that it be visible.

-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = ] On Behalf Of Jonathan Cohn
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2019 03:24 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Identifying focus rectangles

I believe this is essentially the same answer I got when I asked on the BATS (Blind Accessibility Testing) group a year ago. One can certainly look to ensure that focus rectangles have not been disabled in the CSS, but it is near impossible to confirm they exist and have the proper color contrast ratios.

Jonathan Cohn

> On Feb 6, 2019, at 4:17 AM, Patrick H. Lauke < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
> On 06/02/2019 07:24, = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = wrote:
>
>> For a screen reader user, how can they detect focus rectangles when
>> the keyboard focus is on an element? Is this an requirement to check
>> the CSS and possibly the Javascript? Is there any other methods?
>
> I'd say that this is one of those SCs that are very difficult, if not outright impossible, to test fully for a non-sighted user (as there can be so many variations in how the element is being styled, and the styling may even be placed programmatically on a parent/ancestor element, requiring you to analyse potentially the whole DOM branch going all the way to the root of the page).
>
> P
> --
> Patrick H. Lauke
>
> www.splintered.co.uk | https://github.com/patrickhlauke
> http://flickr.com/photos/redux/ | http://redux.deviantart.com
> twitter: @patrick_h_lauke | skype: patrick_h_lauke
> > > archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>

From: glen walker
Date: Thu, Feb 07 2019 10:21AM
Subject: Re: Identifying focus rectangles
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For WCAG 2.0, that is correct, but in WCAG 2.1, 1.4.11 says the focus
indicator should be (at least) 3:1 ratio unless you are using the default
focus indicator of the browser.

On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 10:15 AM Farough, David (CFP/PSC) <
= EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Actually, I don't believe that the colour contrast requirements even apply
> to the focus indicator. I would be much happier if they did. All that is
> required is that it be visible.
>
>

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: Thu, Feb 07 2019 10:32AM
Subject: Re: Identifying focus rectangles
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I think I provided the BATS reply and my position has not changed. A
keyboard focus indicator is something visual in nature, it can be
implemented in any number of ways and cannot be reliably tested by a
blind person, nor an automated tool.
A tool can provide a warning if the standard focus outline has been
disabled by the browser but the tool does not necessarily know whether
it has ben replaced, often replacing the standard focus indicator
provides for a more consistent and ultimately better keyboard user
experience, so it's either good news or really bad news when you find
out about the suppressed default.
Again, I'd like to be able to test everthing without sighted
assistance, so if there are ways that let us be effective at testing
this, that'd be pretty awesome, but my strategy is to focus on things
I can do well and let our UAt team handle something as simple as the
visible focus indicator, but I have the luxury of a UAT team to handle
those types of tests.



On 2/7/19, glen walker < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
> For WCAG 2.0, that is correct, but in WCAG 2.1, 1.4.11 says the focus
> indicator should be (at least) 3:1 ratio unless you are using the default
> focus indicator of the browser.
>
> On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 10:15 AM Farough, David (CFP/PSC) <
> = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:
>
>> Actually, I don't believe that the colour contrast requirements even
>> apply
>> to the focus indicator. I would be much happier if they did. All that is
>> required is that it be visible.
>>
>>
> > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.

From: Steve Green
Date: Thu, Feb 07 2019 10:52AM
Subject: Re: Identifying focus rectangles
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WCAG 2.1 doesn't say that. There is an exception "where the appearance of the component is determined by the user agent and not modified by the author". So if you apply any styling to the component, which includes its border and background colours, the success criterion applies even if you are using the browser's default focus indicator.

For the exception to apply, the browser's default styles must be applied to all aspects of the component, not just the focus indicator.

Steve Green
Managing Director
Test Partners Ltd


-----Original Message-----
From: WebAIM-Forum < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > On Behalf Of glen walker
Sent: 07 February 2019 17:21
To: WebAIM Discussion List < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Identifying focus rectangles

For WCAG 2.0, that is correct, but in WCAG 2.1, 1.4.11 says the focus indicator should be (at least) 3:1 ratio unless you are using the default focus indicator of the browser.

On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 10:15 AM Farough, David (CFP/PSC) < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Actually, I don't believe that the colour contrast requirements even
> apply to the focus indicator. I would be much happier if they did.
> All that is required is that it be visible.
>
>

From: glen walker
Date: Thu, Feb 07 2019 11:36AM
Subject: Re: Identifying focus rectangles
← Previous message | No next message

Sorry, was too quick to type and didn't explain further. Laziness on my
part from a mobile reply. You are correct.

On Thu, Feb 7, 2019 at 10:52 AM Steve Green < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
wrote:

> WCAG 2.1 doesn't say that. There is an exception "where the appearance of
> the component is determined by the user agent and not modified by the
> author". So if you apply any styling to the component, which includes its
> border and background colours, the success criterion applies even if you
> are using the browser's default focus indicator.
>
> For the exception to apply, the browser's default styles must be applied
> to all aspects of the component, not just the focus indicator.
>
>