E-mail List Archives

Search E-mail List Archives for

Number of posts in this thread: 12 (In chronological order)

From: Jim Homme
Date: Wed, Jun 26 2019 11:33AM
Subject: Microsoft Word: Decorative Image Accessibility
No previous message | Next message →

Hi,
This is with Word 2016.


* The accessibility checker wants me to mark decorative images with a check box.
* When I do that, JAWS says the word "Decorative" for these images.
* NVDA does not say anything for these same images, unless I use the Advanced settings and use the experimental UIA settings.
* On the web, blank alt text makes decorative images disappear for both screen readers.
* I was lead to believe that if I put a single space as the alt text in Word, that a screen reader would ignore any image with a single space as alt text.
* As a screen reader user, I am used to not hearing anything for decorative images, because this is how I was trained it should work.

My question is: How should this work, since I do not necessarily know which screen reader a person might have when they read my Word document?

Thanks.

Jim



==========
Jim Homme
Digital Accessibility
Bender Consulting Services
412-787-8567
https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions

From: glen walker
Date: Wed, Jun 26 2019 11:55AM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Word: Decorative Image Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

In my version of Word 2016 (on a PC), there is not a "decorative" option
for images. I know *Powerpoint* 2019 added a "decorative" checkbox. Not
sure about Word 2019. I'm just double checking what version of Word you're
using and where you're seeing the decorative checkbox. When I run the a11y
checking in Word 2016, there's no mention of making decorative images.

And just one clarification, and it's kind of a nit-pick, but you said a
blank alt text makes an image decorative for the web. I wanted to make
sure you meant an empty alt text (quote-quote) and not a single blank
character as the alt text. The latter is seen as a valid alt text and will
read the blank. An empty alt text will essentially hide the image.


On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 10:33 AM Jim Homme < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> Hi,
> This is with Word 2016.
>
>
> * The accessibility checker wants me to mark decorative images with a
> check box.
> * When I do that, JAWS says the word "Decorative" for these images.
> * NVDA does not say anything for these same images, unless I use the
> Advanced settings and use the experimental UIA settings.
> * On the web, blank alt text makes decorative images disappear for
> both screen readers.
> * I was lead to believe that if I put a single space as the alt text
> in Word, that a screen reader would ignore any image with a single space as
> alt text.
> * As a screen reader user, I am used to not hearing anything for
> decorative images, because this is how I was trained it should work.
>
> My question is: How should this work, since I do not necessarily know
> which screen reader a person might have when they read my Word document?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> ==========
> Jim Homme
> Digital Accessibility
> Bender Consulting Services
> 412-787-8567
>
> https://www.benderconsult.com/our%20services/hightest-accessible-technology-solutions
>
> > > > >

From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Wed, Jun 26 2019 12:07PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Word: Decorative Image Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

I've had the decorative checkbox in Word 365 on Windows for months. I no longer have a title and description field -- just an alt text field.

Jonathan

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Wed, Jun 26 2019 12:39PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Word: Decorative Image Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

The null attribute used in Word never did work. As someone who uses JAWS,
what I would hear if "graphic, quote, quote" and if the Word document or
other content from an Office application was converted to tagged PDF, I
would hear the same in the PDF document. Same for any other Office
application. They are not HTML editors producing HTML based content so do
not have the concept of null alt text as it is implemented in HTML.

For almost a year now, we've had the ability to use the Mark as Decorative
check box in the alt text Pane in Office applications if you have an Office
365 subscription and if you were an Office Insider. Sounds like it is being
deployed to those with a general Office 365 subscription now.

At first none of the screen readers supported this so I heard "graphic and
the dimensions of the image when I came across one that I'd marked as
decorative. Now, although hit and miss, JAWS will tell me "graphic,
decorative" or fall back on "graphic, its dimensions."

This feature is not backward compatible. If you mark an image as decorative
in Word and send it to someone with an earlier version of Word, the
accessibility checker will flag it as an image requiring Alt text but the
person you sent the document/content to won't be able to add Alt text.
Because you marked the image as decorative, you are the only one who can
unmark it unless they send it to another person who has a later version of
the application (Office 365 subscription) with access to the Mark as
Decorative check box to turn it off and add Alt text.

However, if you do mark an image as decorative in Word or other Office 365
subscription applications and you then convert that content to tagged PDF
using either the Microsoft ability to do so or the Acrobat Ribbon, the image
IS converted as an Artifact so is also decorative in the resulting PDF
document.

Note that more recent versions of Office 365 subscription applications also
have the ability to automatically generate Alt Text. However, if you use
this tool, any images you generate Alt Text for will appear in an
accessibility check because Microsoft wants you to check and make sure that
the Alt text IS meaningful for the image. There is also a caveat in the Alt
text that states that it was automatically generated which is voiced by
adaptive technology and will also convert as part of the Alt text to tagged
PDF.

This is the "Intelligent Services" category of warnings in the accessibility
checkers in the Office 365 subscription applications.

Cheers, Karen

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Wed, Jun 26 2019 12:42PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Word: Decorative Image Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

Yes, the Title field is gone. There is just the Description field, a button
to automatically generate Alt Text if you have that turned on (Intelligent
Services) and the Mark as Decorative check box.

None of these will be available in earlier versions of Office as far as I
know. They are only available in an Office 365 subscription version.

Cheers, Karen

From: chagnon
Date: Wed, Jun 26 2019 4:09PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Word: Decorative Image Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

I think there's something wacky with the new Alt-text utility.
Sometimes the Decorative checkbox is there, sometimes not.

If I click and use the Alt-Text utility on Format Picture, it has the Title
and Description fields, but no decorative option.

If instead I right-click and use the new-ish Edit Alt Text that's in the
context-sensitive menu, that version just has the Alt-text field. And still
no decorative option.

We had the decorative checkbox earlier in the year, and then it went away,
came back, and went away again with each update to Word. This has happened
with both our 365 subscriptions and traditional installations.

And yes, we're up to date on all of them.

It's just plain weird!

- - -
Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
- - -
PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
consulting . training . development . design . sec. 508 services
Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
- - -
Latest blog-newsletter - Accessibility Tips at www.PubCom.com/blog

From: L Snider
Date: Wed, Jun 26 2019 5:01PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Word: Decorative Image Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

Also in my testing three months back, the decorative still didn't transfer
to PDF, on Mac or PC. I don't use it at this time, until they fix this
feature (or if the document is Word only).

Cheers

Lisa

On Wed, Jun 26, 2019 at 7:10 PM < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = > wrote:

> I think there's something wacky with the new Alt-text utility.
> Sometimes the Decorative checkbox is there, sometimes not.
>
> If I click and use the Alt-Text utility on Format Picture, it has the Title
> and Description fields, but no decorative option.
>
> If instead I right-click and use the new-ish Edit Alt Text that's in the
> context-sensitive menu, that version just has the Alt-text field. And still
> no decorative option.
>
> We had the decorative checkbox earlier in the year, and then it went away,
> came back, and went away again with each update to Word. This has happened
> with both our 365 subscriptions and traditional installations.
>
> And yes, we're up to date on all of them.
>
> It's just plain weird!
>
> - - -
> Bevi Chagnon, founder/CEO | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
> - - -
> PubCom: Technologists for Accessible Design + Publishing
> consulting . training . development . design . sec. 508 services
> Upcoming classes at www.PubCom.com/classes
> - - -
> Latest blog-newsletter - Accessibility Tips at www.PubCom.com/blog
>
>

From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Wed, Jun 26 2019 7:56PM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Word: Decorative Image Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

Bevi, I agree that something odd has happened in Word. I'm no longer able to add alt text to images in .doc format -- only .docx. The accessibility checker also does not work in .doc format -- I thought it used to.

Jonathan

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Thu, Jun 27 2019 5:07AM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Word: Decorative Image Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

This is what I meant when I said that the features/tools were not backward
compatible. You have to update the file format to the latest version/version
that matches your version of Word in order to be able to use tools like the
Alt text Pane, Mark as Decorative and to use the Accessibility Checker.

The accessibility checker has always required files to be updated to the
corresponding version of Word you are using. It would not work on .doc
files. Only .docx files matching your Word version.

Even now, for some documents I started on last year and open in an updated
version of Word, I get the update to latest version notification when I add
content and go to save them.

Cheers, Karen

From: Karlen Communications
Date: Thu, Jun 27 2019 5:11AM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Word: Decorative Image Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

Sounds like a version mis-match. Try saving the Word documents again using
the Save As or F12 and choosing Word document in the file type. Over write
the original and that should update the DOCX format version. Let me know if
that works.

With JAWS I sometimes hear that I'm in "compatibility mode" which tells me I
need to resave the document in an updated version of DOCX but am not sure if
this is displayed in the Title Bar.

Cheers, Karen

From: Jonathan Avila
Date: Thu, Jun 27 2019 7:17AM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Word: Decorative Image Accessibility
← Previous message | Next message →

Hi Karen, I would expect to not have the new alt text panel in .doc format with Word 365 -- but I can't seem to find the old format object and old alt text (title/description) fields eithers - that was my biggest concern - have they moved somewhere different? Word 365 seems to treat them differently as pictures rather than as objects.

Jonathan

From: Marinette Fargo
Date: Thu, Jun 27 2019 8:03AM
Subject: Re: Microsoft Word: Decorative Image Accessibility
← Previous message | No next message

--_004_YT1PR01MB2345DBDC0DC25B3A1BD18E88DFFD0YT1PR01MB2345CANP_
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I am using the most current version in 0365 and it has the decorative image=
box. If you select this in WORD, be aware that you will still get an acces=
sibility flag if it's carried into PDF because it doesn't properly mark the=
image as decorative/artifact. You will have to do this separately in Acrob=
at.

Take care,

Marinette

Marinette Fargo | Analyst II, Digital Accessibility
Computing and Communications Services (CCS)
University of Guelph | Level 3 UC
50 Stone Rd E | Guelph, ON | N1G 2W1
519-824-4120 Ext. 58925 | = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED =
uoguelph.ca/ccs | @UofGCCS on Instagram, Twitter, and Facebook


CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information in this message is intended solely =
for the addressee(s). If you are not the designated recipient, please notif=
y the sender immediately, and permanently delete the original and any copie=
s. Any use of the message by those other than the intended recipients is pr=
ohibited.

[University of Guelph Cornerstone Logo. Improve Life tagline]



From: Jonathan Avila < = EMAIL ADDRESS REMOVED = >
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2019 9:56 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Microsoft Word: Decorative Image Accessibility

Bevi, I agree that something odd has happened in Word. I'm no longer able=
to add alt text to images in .doc format -- only .docx. The accessibility=
checker also does not work in .doc format -- I thought it used to.

Jonathan