WebAIM - Web Accessibility In Mind

E-mail List Archives

replaced the alt tags with longdesc tags (was: Complication of the alt text issue)

for

From: John Foliot - bytown internet
Date: Mar 12, 2002 7:40PM



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kim Grinfeder [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
> Sent: March 12, 2002 6:40 PM
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>

> And while I am writing to the list and we are talking about alt tags, I
> had to remove all alt tags from images because our designer (I am a
> developer) did not want them showing up when the mouse was over the
> images, I replaced the alt tags with longdesc tags. Is this helpful at
> all or bad form?

WHAT??????????? No no no no no no no!!!!!! (no no)

Tell your graphic designer that you'll take away the alt tags if he gives
you a black and white only web design. That way it will be equally
restrictive to everybody. ALT text is not a "nicety" to add or remove at
will, it is a very neccessary part of developing your site so that ALL
USERS, not just the blind, can access INFORMATION from your web site. Text
browsers, PDA's, heck next years toaster for all I know. How dare he
presume that what he sees (gets) is what everybody else should see (get).
Ask him if he's prepared to buy me a nice big monitor like he has too, so
that I can "experience" all of his vision exactly as he sees it at his desk.

Now if it's the infamous "spacer.gif" (and yes, I still will use them...
because) or some equally useless imagery, then it's <..ALT="">. That way
there is no "tool tip". But if the image conveys real information important
to the overall web page, then put those ALT tags back in and go fight it out
with the designer and the boss, and tell the boss that there are compelling
reasons why you should win, and if you can't think of them all then call me
and I'll tell him. (you can always drop the words "customer service" and
"lawsuit"... either usually gets a response)

Everybody, repeat after me... "web sites are DEVELOPED, not designed..."
"web sites are DEVELOPED, not designed"


JF (grumpy)
www.bytowninternet.com






> Thanks,
> Kim
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Foliot - bytown internet [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 12, 2002 6:31 PM
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Cc: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Subject: RE: Complication of the alt text issue
>
> - ALT attribute is a brief descriptive of the image... in your case
> "Products and Services" or at the most "Products and Services Page".
> Just
> as the "button" generally offers no more explanation than that to the
> sighted, so too the ALT text. Trust me, the non-sighted will understand
> that this is a link to the Products and Services page(s). Try to avoid
> over-compensation, it could inadvertanly become offensive, almost a
> "dumbing
> down for the blind guy". (with no offence to anyone on this list) You
> could
> try using the title attribute, but it's support over multiple browsers
> is
> dodgy at best.
>
> - You know that ALL images have ALT text, even if its <..ALT="">
>
> - If the image in question requires more explanation than as mentioned
> above, move to LONGDESC and or d-links (both are external files with
> text
> descriptions of the image in question)
>
> As for accessiblity "enhancements" such as keyboard short cuts, why not
> make
> a seperate page within your site which outlines all of the accessibility
> features you have provided, along with a list of the keyboard shortcuts?
> Trying to make the ALT text serve multiple purposes is contrary to it's
> intent and actually (as you have discovered) creates as many problems as
> it
> attempts to solve.
>
> As always, JMHO
>
> JF
> www.bytowninternet.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lisa Halabi [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
> > Sent: March 12, 2002 5:48 PM
> > To: Webaim-Forum
> > Subject: FW: Complication of the alt text issue
> >
> >
> > Dear All,
> >
> > I'm having difficulties trying to help a colleague solve the
> > thorny issue of
> > what to put on Alt tags as part of a massive redesign to make our
> Company
> > site ultra accessible. I've seen this issue discussed countless times
> and
> > thought it was all clear and simple, but not so! Please see the
> > email below.
> > Basically, we can't decide on the appropriate level of detail to
> include,
> > especially as we want to show the keyboard short cuts in the Alt tags
> as
> > well. I'd appreciate any comments you might have.
> >
> > The url to the site is www.usabilitybydesign.com
> > Many thanks in advance.
> > Lisa
> >
> > Lisa Halabi
> > Senior Usability & Accessibility Consultant
> > Events Coordinator - UK Usability Professionals Assoc.
> > www.usabilitybydesign.com
> > Email: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > Tel: +44 (0)7956 280 447
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Gary Bunker
> > Sent: 12 March 2002 15:16
> > To: Lisa Halabi
> > Cc: Paul Chandler
> > Subject: Complication of the alt text issue
> >
> >
> > Lisa,
> >
> > a slight complication.
> >
> > To sum up, current alt text is in a long form, explaining what
> > can be found.
> > For example for the products/services button it is "Details on
> > the products
> > and services we offer, and what they can do for you"
> >
> > Problem being that they don't provide the actual name of the button
> > (products and services) and are quite long, so that blind users have
> to
> > listen to the entire alt text and then decide which section they are
> > navigating to.
> >
> > Your initial proposal was to shorten them to just the name of the
> section,
> > i.e. "Products and services" - however that makes it easier to
> > listen to but
> > provides no feedback on the content of the section being visited.
> >
> > We had come to an agreement that the best approach is to shorten the
> alt
> > text to something like "Products: For usability products and services"
> -
> > short enough not to be too annoying to blind users but long enough to
> > provide some hint to sighted users of the content to be found.
> >
> > However, we also currently use the alt text to explain to blind
> > users that a
> > quick key is available. So the current alt text is actually
> > "Details on the products and services we offer, and what they can do
> for
> > you.
> >
> > Alt + 'P' to select"
> >
> > Obviously if we go with the solution we just proposed we lose the
> shortcut
> > key information - making it much harder for both sighted and visually
> > impaired users to learn those shortcuts.
> >
> > Any suggestions?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ----
> > To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> > visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
> >
> >
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
>
> ----
> To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
> visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/
>
>


----
To subscribe, unsubscribe, or view list archives,
visit http://www.webaim.org/discussion/