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RE: WAI needs to rethink and revisit (was Printable character between adjacent links)

for

From: Jon Gunderson
Date: May 20, 2002 8:43AM


The biggest problem with using fixed sizes is when using CSS to position
and size rendering boxes. If the boxes contain text, when you resize the
text the text either spills out of the box which often results in masking
other content or it tries to resize within the current box size and
overlaps text on other text in the box.

Jon


At 10:26 AM 5/20/2002 -0400, Kevin Spruill wrote:
>I'm confused - the WAI recommendation is to use relative font sizes, but
>your colleague cites that recommendation as a reason to use fixed fonts?
>This recommendation reads to me as saying:
>
>1. Use relative fonts
>2. If you choose to use fixed fonts instead, validate to assure that
>the content is accessible
>
>Seems to me the first part trumps the second... hence my confusion over
>the the justification in using fixed font size. (Will we ever be done
>with this "argument") :)
>
>The WAI is in fact reviewing all of the WCAG 1.0 guidelines - you can
>review the WCAG 2.0 draft at the site, wherein a lot of the things that
>have been discussed on the list, have been revised.
>
>HK
>
>Kevin Spruill
>National Library of Medicine
>OCCS
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>(301) 402-9708
>(301) 402-0367 (fax)
>www.nlm.nih.gov
>
> >>> <EMAIL REMOVED> 05/17/02 09:02AM >>>
>Hear, hear!!
>
>I am currently embroiled in a debate with an associate over the use (or
>
>non-use) of fixed font sizes. His argument is that if he does not use
>fixed
>font sizes in his stlyesheets that the "display" becomes unpredictable
>in
>different browers/OS implementations. He points to the WAI Guidelines
>wording as justification: (This statement is found in the Guidelines
>( http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10/ )) "3.4 Use relative rather than
>absolute
>units in mark-up language attribute values and style sheet property
>values.
>[Priority 2] For example, in CSS, use 'em' or percentage lengths rather
>
>than 'pt' or 'cm', which are absolute units. If absolute units are
>used,
>validate that the rendered content is usable"
>
>While I feel comfortable in debating the folly of this mind set it does
>open
>the debate up, as the WAI wording is counterproductive and, IMHO
>against the
>spirit of Universal Accessibility.
>
>How can we, as committed developers and advocates, influence the W3C to
>
>revisit their wording? Thoughts?
>
>JF
>
>
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Michael R. Burks [ mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
> > Sent: May 16, 2002 9:35 AM
> > To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > Subject: RE: Printable character between adjacent links
> >
> >
> > Just one more reason that the WAI needs to rethink and revisit
> > much of what
> > they recommend.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Mike Burks
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Prof Norm Coombs [ mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
> > Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2002 8:57 AM
> > To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > Subject: RE: Printable character between adjacent links
> >
> >
> > As a blind user of the Internet,
> > I hate hate hate those characters between links that WAI thinks
> > is so nice.
> >
> > At 11:31 AM 5/15/02 +0300, you wrote:
> > >philip steven lanier wrote:
> > >
> > > > Adjacent image-based links can unambiguously be made visually
>distinct
> > > > from each other. Consider a row of circular "button"
> > > > graphics with text or icons in them.
> > >
> > >Yes, that's one possibility I had in my mind. Sorry for not
> > making it clear
> > >that borders and margins were just _examples_ of the visual
>presentation
> > >features that could be used. Yet another possibility - for images
>that
> > >essentially contain text - would be to use alternating background
>colors
> > >that are sufficiently different.
> > >
> > >The basic problem to avoid is having a row of links like
> > > foo bar zap blurp more foo more bar and so on
> > >in image format, with no obvious (and I mean _obvious_ to
> > virtually anyone
> > >who sees it) indication of where each link ends or even how many
>links
> > there
> > >are. A useful rule of thumb: the user should be able to recognize
>them as
> > >separate links without knowing the topic or even the language used.
>It
> > >happens too often that people rely on orthography like capital
>letters or
> > >even recognizing _phrases_, or other "higher level protocol" issues.
>
> > >
> > >--
> > >Jukka Korpela
> > >TIEKE Tietoyhteiskunnan kehitt