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Re: A List of Form Elements?

for

From: Ryan E. Benson
Date: Mar 15, 2012 8:24PM

Sunshine,

I am not 100% what you mean by:
> Radio buttons are grouped semantically but it's not a
> relationship that translates to visual structure (I can't target the input
> and matching label in my stylesheet).
I am guessing you want something like:
http://css-tricks.com/improved-current-field-highlighting-in-forms/


--
Ryan E. Benson



On Thu, Mar 15, 2012 at 5:07 PM, Lewis, Sunshine T.
< <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> Thank you for the feedback.
>
> Radio buttons are grouped semantically but it's not a relationship that translates to visual structure (I can't target the input and matching label in my stylesheet).
>
> So what is the appropriate markup for grouping a radio button and label to apply visual structure (with or without developer styles)? Paragraphs? Divs? Neither of those seem correct if you think solely in terms of describing the structure of the content. Same for span and div since those offer no additional information.  Maybe instead of grouping the two pieces they should just get a <br>.
>
> It also sounds like some of this comes down to personal preference for screen reader users. (correct me if I'm wrong)  Would lists be ok semantically if not for the overhead?
>
> Thanks for indulging me. It's difficult to have these conversations with your family :D.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan E. Benson [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2012 5:53 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] A List of Form Elements?
>
> I'll also add that if radio/checkboxes are correctly grouped together via the name attribute, a screen reader will say how many are in the group.
>
> --
> Ryan E. Benson
>
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 3:21 PM, Steve Green < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> Yes it does - even more so. Radio buttons are already semantically
>> grouped by means of their attributes, so adding list markup is even
>> less appropriate (if less than zero is possible) than it is for
>> textboxes. <form> and <fieldset> elements are all that is needed.
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Lewis,
>> Sunshine T.
>> Sent: 14 March 2012 17:37
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] A List of Form Elements?
>>
>> Does the dislike of lists for forms also apply to lists for checkboxes
>> and radio buttons?
>> <fieldset><legend>
>> <ul>
>> <li><input ></li>
>> <li><input ></li>
>> </ul>
>> </fieldset>
>>
>> Markup seems semantically appropriate to me but I'm curious if that
>> would introduce the same issues?
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Steve Green [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
>> Sent: Tuesday, March 13, 2012 1:33 PM
>> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] A List of Form Elements?
>>
>> I am also totally opposed to the use of lists for forms. It's
>> semantically incorrect and it's an appalling user experience for
>> screen reader users - the additional verbiage decreases
>> comprehensibility rather than increasing it.
>>
>> Steve Green
>> Managing Director
>> Test Partners Ltd
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Jennifer
>> Sutton
>> Sent: 13 March 2012 00:43
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] A List of Form Elements?
>>
>> I'm not a fan of list-items in forms, either. I've rarely seen it done
>> and have often argued against it.  When I'm in a form, I find the
>> indication of list-items distracting and disorienting from the task at
>> hand.  Honestly, it just feels semantically wrong to me.
>>
>> Jennifer
>>
>> At 04:18 PM 3/12/2012, you wrote:
>>>I'm not a fan of lists to differentiate form items. You adequately
>>>note
>>
>>>the disadvantages, which I think outweigh any perceived benefits.
>>>In most cases, the form is navigated from form control to form control
>>>anyway (i.e., hitting the Tab key), so the only real advantage (that
>>>the number of items is identified) often doesn't occur anyway.
>>>
>>>The <div> markup could probably be simplified even more with <form
>>>class="aform"> <div>...<label>...<input>...</div>
>>></form>
>>>and
>>>.aform div { }
>>>to define the necessary styling.
>>>
>>>Jared Smith
>>>WebAIM.org
>>>