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Re: Left Column and Heading Level Order

for

From: Bim Egan
Date: Jul 9, 2012 8:16AM

Hi Dave,

I can see an argument for starting with H1 for people with mathematical
logic in mind but personally I don't like multiple H1 headings. Pages are
designed to give visual users every possible optical clue to get them right
to the topic headline at main content, so why should blind people have to
use twice the equivalent effort to find the same information? I've also
found that it muddies the water. If the rule is one H1 at the head of main
content, that's clear, but start adding other potential uses of H1 and
suddenly you have ten on a page because someone has taken the logic further
than needed, mistakenly believing that it would be helpful.

Cheers,

Bim

----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Smith" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
To: < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Sent: Monday, July 09, 2012 9:58 AM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Left Column and Heading Level Order



Hi

Just a thought to add to the conversation, can using multiple h1s help here?

The first h1 for site wide content with a proper heading structure below it
relating to site information, navigation etc.
The second h1 for the main content again with proper heading structure as
normal.

For example:

title WebAIM: Awesome Article
h1 WebAIM
h2 Navigation
h2 From the Blog
h2 Community
h1 Awesome Article
h2 Introduction
h2 Story
h2 Conclusion

all the best
Dave Smith

> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2012 23:57:36 +0100
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Left Column and Heading Level Order
>
> Hi all,
>
> PDF and web pages don't normally have the same purpose and functionality
> as
> one another. Most PDF files are on a single subject and don't contain
> navigation panels to other related PDF files.
>
> Each web page is also on a single subject but contains links to other
> pages
> in the same web site and / or section of a site. The navigation isn't
> part
> of the page topic, so shouldn't be assigned the H1 level, which is the
> only
> level that virtually all screen readers can reach, irrespective of any
> preceding heading level.
>
> So H1 should be reserved for the main content heading, as Jared and Brian
> said.
>
> If there happen to be other headings above this in code order, then
> presumably these have been provided for the convenience of screen reader
> users, so that theres an easy means of reaching navigation links for
> instance. Screen reader users are grateful for this aid, but not when
> mathematical logic is put into play and the page has H1 at the top of all
> content, such as the site name, followed by H2 for navigational sections
> and
> main content. This just makes it very hard to locate and understand where
> main content starts.
>
> The worst I've come across was a site where so many navigational sections
> preceded the main content that it took 9 key presses to reach it. That's
> the visual equivalent of having no visual difference between headings, no
> white space separation or any other visual clues to the whole point of the
> page.
>
> So when someone using screen reader generic heading navigation finds H2 as
> the first heading on a page, they aren't disappointed or think badly of
> the
> author, far from it, their first reaction is hope that (if this is a
> navigation heading), the author will have got the rest of it right too,
> and
> have H1 where it should be, followed by proper nesting within main content
> and reverting to H2 for any other headings outside main content.
>
> HTML5 may resolve this, but in the meantime, the system described by Jared
> and Brian is the best way we have to understand the multiple section
> layout
> of web pages.
>
> Best,
>
> Bim
> ==> Bim Egan
> Web Access Consultant
> Find me on LinkedIn:
> http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id3508313&;trk=tab_pro
>
>
>
> .
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Loretta Guarino Reid" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Sent: Friday, July 06, 2012 10:50 PM
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Left Column and Heading Level Order
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 2:36 PM, David Ashleydale
> < <EMAIL REMOVED> >wrote:
>
> > On Fri, Jul 6, 2012 at 2:25 PM, James Nurthen < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >
> > > WCAG2 H42 has example 2 which covers this exact scenario
> > >
> > > http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/H42.html
> >
> >
> > Yes, and that's one of the things that was confusing me. The
> > "sufficient"
> > technique you linked to above has an example where the Hs are not in
> > order.
> > However, there is also an "advisory" technique (
> > http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20120103/G141) that
> > specifies
> > putting the headings in order and not skipping levels.
> >
> > Since this is just advisory though, I assume it means that a web page
> > author can claim WCAG Level A conformance and not do it.
> >
>
> Yes, David, this is correct.
>
>
> > Still, it seems like a good thing to strive for.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> > >