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Re: Is use of <label> and title redundant?

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From: GILLENWATER, ZOE M
Date: Nov 19, 2012 6:41AM

Hi Sailesh,

One advantage for hidden labels that I've found when testing the difference between them and title attributes on form fields is that a few screen reader-browser combinations will not read the title text in normal reading mode, only when focused in the form field. The hidden label always gets read in both normal and forms reading modes. This seems non-trivial to me, as hearing label-less form fields announced would be confusing and doesn't give you the information you need to be able to decide whether you want to go into forms reading mode. Have you never seen this behavior with title text in normal reading mode?

I've even seen cases where not only is the title text not announced in normal reading mode, but the type of form field is not announced, so you have no idea anything is even there to enter forms mode for. Granted, this has only happened to me in older screen readers, but still, it's a pretty big problem. Again, this is just in normal reading mode--I've had no problems with title text in forms reading mode. But because of this, using regular old labels seems far safer in many contexts. Title text has its place too, but I'm starting to think that hidden labels should be the technique of first resort (apart from adding visible labels whenever possible, of course!).

I'd love to hear differing opinions on this! :-)

Thanks,
Zoe

Zoe Gillenwater
Web Accessibility Technical Architect
AT&T Consumer Digital Experience

o: 919-241-4083
e:   <EMAIL REMOVED>

4625 Creekstone Dr | Durham, NC 27703

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-----Original Message-----
From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Sailesh Panchang
Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 7:53 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Is use of <label> and title redundant?

As per WCAG2 techniques, title on form controls should be used when
visible label is not present ... i.e. when purpose of form control is
obvious generally to sighted users / as per UI design.
(If purpose is not obvious visually, then the fix is to incorporate a
visual text label for the benefit of all users).

Using title in these situations mainly to convey purpose of control to
non-sighted users is well supported by browsers and AT, both recent
and legacy ones.
Title is also available via mouseover to some sighted users who might
need them.
I do not recommend using off-screen label: it is more work and code
and not available to anyone except screen reader / magnification users
unless CSS is turned off.
Sailesh Panchang
Deque Systems


On 11/9/12, Michael R. Burks < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> I would like to add that we should code to the standards, not to a specific
> type of Assistive Technology.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Mike Burks
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Michael R. Burks
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 7:51 PM
> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Is use of <label> and title redundant?
>
> It has not been my experience that title attributes work well with Dragon
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Mike Burks
> 919-882-1884 - Fax
> 919-349-6661 - Office
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Ryan E. Benson
> Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 6:59 PM
> To: <EMAIL REMOVED> ; WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Is use of <label> and title redundant?
>
> Léonie Watson wrote:
>> Most screen readers don't acknowledge the title attribute by default,
>> although they can be configured to do so. VoiceOver is the exception I
>> think.
> ZoomText (v9.5 at least) will read the title attribute instead of the
> label.
> The same goes with links with a title attribute, it reads the title versus
> linking words.
>
> --
> Ryan E. Benson
>
>
> On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Léonie Watson < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> Angela French wrote:
>> " Is the use of a <label> tag to identify association with a text
>> field and the simultaneous use of the title attribute in the <input>
>> tag redundant, such that it should be avoided? In other words, would
>> a screen reader say the word twice?"
>>
>> Most screen readers don't acknowledge the title attribute by default,
>> although they can be configured to do so. VoiceOver is the exception I
>> think.
>>
>> Assuming the label is visible, it's worth asking what value the title
>> attribute brings in this case?
>>
>>
>> Léonie.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Angela
>> French
>> Sent: 09 November 2012 18:22
>> To: 'WebAim Forum ( <EMAIL REMOVED> )'
>> Subject: [WebAIM] Is use of <label> and title redundant?
>>
>> Hello,
>> Is the use of a <label> tag to identify association with a text field
>> and the simultaneous use of the title attribute in the <input> tag
>> redundant, such that it should be avoided? In other words, would a
>> screen reader say the word twice?
>>
>> Example:
>>
>> <label for="searchfield" class="offscreen"> Search</label><input
>> id="searchfield" type="text" title="Search">
>>
>> Thank you,
>>
>>
>> Angela French
>> Internet Specialist
>> State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
>> 360-704-4316
>> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> http://www.checkoutacollege.com/
>>
>> >> >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>
>>
>> >> >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > > messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>
> > > messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>
> > > >