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Re: Is use of <label> and title redundant?

for

From: Steve Faulkner
Date: Nov 19, 2012 6:59AM


Hi Zoe,

When a control lacks another form of explicit labelling, the title
attribute content is mapped to the accessible name for the control. This is
consistent across plaforms and accessibility APIs, this has been the case
for a long time and is the standardized behaviour [1].

While we should take into account the bugs in AT when newer technologies
are used (example ARIA), we should be filing bugs against those AT/browsers
that do not follow the standards as trying to code to take into account
bugs in every AT that do not make use of the accessibility information
exposed in a standardized/agreed way is a losing proposition.


[1] http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-api-map/raw-file/tip/Overview.html#calc

regards
SteveF

On 19 November 2012 13:41, GILLENWATER, ZOE M < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Hi Sailesh,
>
> One advantage for hidden labels that I've found when testing the
> difference between them and title attributes on form fields is that a few
> screen reader-browser combinations will not read the title text in normal
> reading mode, only when focused in the form field. The hidden label always
> gets read in both normal and forms reading modes. This seems non-trivial to
> me, as hearing label-less form fields announced would be confusing and
> doesn't give you the information you need to be able to decide whether you
> want to go into forms reading mode. Have you never seen this behavior with
> title text in normal reading mode?
>
> I've even seen cases where not only is the title text not announced in
> normal reading mode, but the type of form field is not announced, so you
> have no idea anything is even there to enter forms mode for. Granted, this
> has only happened to me in older screen readers, but still, it's a pretty
> big problem. Again, this is just in normal reading mode--I've had no
> problems with title text in forms reading mode. But because of this, using
> regular old labels seems far safer in many contexts. Title text has its
> place too, but I'm starting to think that hidden labels should be the
> technique of first resort (apart from adding visible labels whenever
> possible, of course!).
>
> I'd love to hear differing opinions on this! :-)
>
> Thanks,
> Zoe
>
> Zoe Gillenwater
> Web Accessibility Technical Architect
> AT&T Consumer Digital Experience
>
> o: 919-241-4083
> e: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>
> 4625 Creekstone Dr | Durham, NC 27703
>
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>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: <EMAIL REMOVED> [mailto:
> <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Sailesh Panchang
> Sent: Saturday, November 10, 2012 7:53 PM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Is use of <label> and title redundant?
>
> As per WCAG2 techniques, title on form controls should be used when
> visible label is not present ... i.e. when purpose of form control is
> obvious generally to sighted users / as per UI design.
> (If purpose is not obvious visually, then the fix is to incorporate a
> visual text label for the benefit of all users).
>
> Using title in these situations mainly to convey purpose of control to
> non-sighted users is well supported by browsers and AT, both recent
> and legacy ones.
> Title is also available via mouseover to some sighted users who might
> need them.
> I do not recommend using off-screen label: it is more work and code
> and not available to anyone except screen reader / magnification users
> unless CSS is turned off.
> Sailesh Panchang
> Deque Systems
>
>
> On 11/9/12, Michael R. Burks < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> > I would like to add that we should code to the standards, not to a
> specific
> > type of Assistive Technology.
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Mike Burks
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Michael R.
> Burks
> > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 7:51 PM
> > To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Is use of <label> and title redundant?
> >
> > It has not been my experience that title attributes work well with Dragon
> >
> > Sincerely,
> >
> > Mike Burks
> > 919-882-1884 - Fax
> > 919-349-6661 - Office
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Ryan E.
> Benson
> > Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 6:59 PM
> > To: <EMAIL REMOVED> ; WebAIM Discussion List
> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Is use of <label> and title redundant?
> >
> > Léonie Watson wrote:
> >> Most screen readers don't acknowledge the title attribute by default,
> >> although they can be configured to do so. VoiceOver is the exception I
> >> think.
> > ZoomText (v9.5 at least) will read the title attribute instead of the
> > label.
> > The same goes with links with a title attribute, it reads the title
> versus
> > linking words.
> >
> > --
> > Ryan E. Benson
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 2:32 PM, Léonie Watson < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >> Angela French wrote:
> >> " Is the use of a <label> tag to identify association with a text
> >> field and the simultaneous use of the title attribute in the <input>
> >> tag redundant, such that it should be avoided? In other words, would
> >> a screen reader say the word twice?"
> >>
> >> Most screen readers don't acknowledge the title attribute by default,
> >> although they can be configured to do so. VoiceOver is the exception I
> >> think.
> >>
> >> Assuming the label is visible, it's worth asking what value the title
> >> attribute brings in this case?
> >>
> >>
> >> Léonie.
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Angela
> >> French
> >> Sent: 09 November 2012 18:22
> >> To: 'WebAim Forum ( <EMAIL REMOVED> )'
> >> Subject: [WebAIM] Is use of <label> and title redundant?
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >> Is the use of a <label> tag to identify association with a text field
> >> and the simultaneous use of the title attribute in the <input> tag
> >> redundant, such that it should be avoided? In other words, would a
> >> screen reader say the word twice?
> >>
> >> Example:
> >>
> >> <label for="searchfield" class="offscreen"> Search</label><input
> >> id="searchfield" type="text" title="Search">
> >>
> >> Thank you,
> >>
> >>
> >> Angela French
> >> Internet Specialist
> >> State Board for Community and Technical Colleges
> >> 360-704-4316
> >> <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >> http://www.checkoutacollege.com/
> >>
> >> > >> > >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >>
> >>
> >> > >> > >> list messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> > > > > > messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >
> > > > > > messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
> >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >



--
with regards

Steve Faulkner
Technical Director - TPG

www.paciellogroup.com | www.HTML5accessibility.com |
www.twitter.com/stevefaulkner
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