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Re: a possible jaws bug and if it is can someone file it

for

From: Lucy Greco
Date: Jan 8, 2014 5:12PM

Ok so this gives burker a lot of ammunition to file the bug then thanks

Lucia Greco
Web Access Analyst
IST-Campus Technology Services
University of California, Berkeley
(510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
http://webaccess.berkeley.edu


-----Original Message-----
From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Bryan Garaventa
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 4:09 PM
To: WebAIM Discussion List
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] a possible jaws bug and if it is can someone file it

I understand, this has been a problem in JAWS going back many years,
though it's been getting better over the years as well.

It has to do with JAWS's ability to recognize dynamic content changes in
the DOM. In this case, it's a specific state change in the accessibility
tree that JAWS is failing to recognize.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lucy Greco" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [WebAIM] a possible jaws bug and if it is can someone file it


> Answers inline
>
> I see what you mean. I agree that the state should be conveyed when the
> focused element changes programmatically.
>
> The problem is that this should only happen when the state changes on
the
> element that currently has focus. Or in JAWS' case, the element that
> sounds
> like it has focus where the Virtual Cursor is pointing.
> [] lg yes but in this demo the focus for the keyboard stays on the
expand
> not it does not move the focus as far as I can tell if I use speak
current
> line it reads the expand link
> I
> This is easier to accomplish in NVDA, because as you arrow down the page
> in
> Browse Mode, everything that you hear is given focus.
>
> In JAWS though, focus may be on another element on the page, and as you
> arrow down the page, keyboard focus is not moved to the element you are
> hearing.
>
> It should be possible for FS to do it, but they will need to make sure
> that
> when state changes on other elements on the page as part of a
> configuration
> script for instance, that all of their states are not automatically
> announced at the same time as well, which would sort of defeat the
> purpose.
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lucy Greco" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 3:27 PM
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] a possible jaws bug and if it is can someone file
it
>
>
>> Ok I just tested in i.e. 10 and found a different but similar problem.
>> When I tab to the link and click it will speak the state change but if
I
>> click it again it does not tell me that the state changed back. We
want
>> the link to change whenever the user clicks it and it does do so but
> jaws
>> needs to say witch state it is currently in.
>> And if I keep clicking it never tells me that the state changes. The
>> difference in i.e. to ff is that I can tab away and back again and it
>> will tell me once again the state change but only the first state
change
>> to get it to tell me I can't click the link without tabbing away from
> the
>> link.
>> Also I think it's not controllable but in i.e. the user does not have
> any
>> way to go to the focused text that has been opened like in Firefox I
> think
>> that's a known jaws thing.
>>
>> Lucia Greco
>> Web Access Analyst
>> IST-Campus Technology Services
>> University of California, Berkeley
>> (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
>> http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Birkir R.
>> Gunnarsson
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 3:08 PM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] a possible jaws bug and if it is can someone file
> it
>>
>> Testing this with Jaws 15 and FF24, I observed the following.
>> Clicking expand/collapse links works consistently every time.
>> If a section is expanded and I refresh the page, the section
>> collapses. That is not a Jaws problem, it collapses also visually in
>> the browser.
>> Is this the root of the problem Lucy?
>> We can get to the bottom of this.
>> Thanks
>> -Birkir
>> Accessibility SME | Deque Systems
>>
>>
>> On 1/8/14, Bryan Garaventa < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>> It works fine for me. I tested it using JAWS15 in IE 8 9 and 10 and
FF,
>> and
>>> it's not having any problems. I also refreshed the page, reloaded the
>> url,
>>> and again that works too.
>>>
>>> Which version of JAWS, browser, and OS are you seeing this on?
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: cb
>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 2:22 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] a possible jaws bug and if it is can someone
>> file
>>> it
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback. The trigger function now includes
>>> preventDefault(). Unfortunately it didn't solve Lucy's problem
> though.
>>> A new version is attached in case anyone with Jaws wants to try to
>>> duplicate what she's experiencing.
>>>
>>> Caroline
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 1:24 PM, Bryan Garaventa
>>> < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>> > The script is missing a preventDefault() which may be contributing
>> to
>>> the
>>> > problem. This should be added to prevent page refreshing whenever
>> DOM
>>> level
>>> > dynamic content is rendered via a triggering element.
>>> >
>>> > ----- Original Message -----
>>> > From: "Lucy Greco" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>> > To: "WebAIM Discussion List" < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>> > Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 1:18 PM
>>> > Subject: Re: [WebAIM] a possible jaws bug and if it is can someone
>> file
>>> it
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Great please do test and remember it works the first time you
open
>> the
>>> >> expand just not after that
>>> >>
>>> >> Lucia Greco
>>> >> Web Access Analyst
>>> >> IST-Campus Technology Services
>>> >> University of California, Berkeley
>>> >> (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
>>> >> http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>> >> From: <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>> >> [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf Of Birkir
>> R.
>>> >> Gunnarsson
>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 1:14 PM
>>> >> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>>> >> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] a possible jaws bug and if it is can
someone
>> file
>>> it
>>> >>
>>> >> Lucy
>>> >>
>>> >> I am able to use Jaws reliably on this demo page I came up with
>> with
>>> >> Detlev Fisher, one that is on his site at:
>>> >> http://www.3needs.org/en/testing/code/aria-expanded.html#
>>> >>
>>> >> I can check the demo later on, and if this is a bug I would be
>> happy
>>> to
>>> >> help you file it. I am on the Jaws beta team, though I am not
very
>>> active.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 1/8/14, Lucy Greco < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>> >>> Sorry about that here is the demo
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Lucia Greco
>>> >>> Web Access Analyst
>>> >>> IST-Campus Technology Services
>>> >>> University of California, Berkeley
>>> >>> (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
>>> >>> http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >>> From: Lucy Greco [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]
>>> >>> Sent: Wednesday, January 08, 2014 12:56 PM
>>> >>> To: 'WebAIM Discussion List'
>>> >>> Subject: a possible jaws bug and if it is can someone file it
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Hello:
>>> >>> We would like to give users of our campus accessible templates
>> the
>>> >>> ability to use an expandable and collapsible content area.
>> Attached
>>> is
>>> >> the
>>> >>> demo of what we have come up with so far. It works great in NVDA
>>> and
>>> >> not
>>> >>> so good in jaws.
>>> >>> The problem we have found in jaws is that jaws only indicates
the
>>> >>> expansion happens the first time the expand is clicked. In fact
> if
>>> you
>>> >>> go back to the page a second time it won't say anything ever
>> again.
>>> >>> When this first happened I thought I was losing my mind but I
>> tested
>>> >>> on another computer and the same thing happened. My instinct is
>> that
>>> >>> jaws is the bad player in this game. Can someone else confirm
> this
>>> and
>>> >>> if anyone on this list is on the jaws beta team could you file
>> this
>>> as
>>> >>> a bug. I am really getting fed up with AT that does not
> implement
>>> >> standards appropriately.
>>> >>> It's hard enough to get developers to code to standers and then
>> when
>>> >>> the AT does not work to the standers it's even harder. My new
>> year's
>>> >>> resolution is to shame AT products that don't come up to the
mark
>>> more
>>> >>> grin Lucy Lucia Greco Web Access Analyst IST-Campus Technology
>>> >>> Services University of California, Berkeley
>>> >>> (510) 289-6008 skype: lucia1-greco
>>> >>> http://webaccess.berkeley.edu
>>> >>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>>> >> >>> >> Address
>>> list
>>> >> messages to <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>> >> >>> >> >>> >> >>> >
>>> > >>> > >>> > >>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> ----
>>>
>>>
>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>> >> >> >> >> >> >
> > > > > >