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Re: Google Chrome blocks accessibility for keyboard users. Your input is needed.

for

From: Jonathan H
Date: Apr 18, 2014 12:05PM

On 18 April 2014 16:38, Ryan E. Benson < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> I recommend deleting or revising your StackOverflow question as well.

"As well" as what? Andhy would I want to do that?

> I attempted to edit your question since saving a link is not a mission
> critical failure as you mentioned there.

OK, seeing as you didn't respond to my points on Stackoverflow, I
don't wish to turn this into a flame war, so perhaps the Webaim
community can guide me as to whether my points are reasonable.

My SO question made it clear it was a question relating to
accessibility for users relying on keyboard-shortcuts solely affecting
browsers built round the blink rendering engine, ie: Google Chrome.

So your first action was to remove the following tags I had added.
Here they are with their SO descriptions.

*blink* "Blink is an open source rendering engine forked from WebKit.
It is included in Google Chrome 28+ and Opera 14+." -
- I made it clear in the first sentence that my issue is only with
these browsers.

*Accessibility* "The practice of making software which functions
smoothly for users with a variety of disabilities, including
blindness, deafness, and paralysis among others."
- I explained clearly this was an issue affecting users who rely on
the keyboard. I even mentioned blind users specifically.

*keyboard-shortcuts* "Keyboard shortcuts provide quick access to
application or system actions via combinatorial key presses".
- I explained clearly that this issue ONLY affected users relying on
keyboard shortcuts.

So, why did you remove those three tags?

You ADDED the tag "javascript" - this relates to the DOM, not
javascript. I had already made it clear that I had tried some
Javascript suggestions but these were not relevant.

In your SO reply, you wrote:

> "The part about "Save link as..." is not really relevant here".

"Save link as" is ENTIRELY relevant here - the example was to
demonstrate the problem, not to give a full use-case scenario for one
user's particular browsing habits. Given that this makes saving files
impossible (ie: a showstopper) IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES for users who
rely on the "keyboard shortcuts", who are usually also "accessibility"
technology users,

And as for "not a mission critical failure", your mission is to
imagine you rely on the keyboard, you use Chrome, and you want to
download the first link on the page, it's a very important file.
Given that you wouldn't able to because of what you, yourself
described as "a bug", I'd say that was "mission failed", wouldn't you?

You also wrote:

> I recommend deleting or revising your StackOverflow question

Here's what Stackoverflow is:

http://stackoverflow.com/tour
- "Stack Overflow is a question and answer site for professional and
enthusiast programmers".

I am programming a site for visually impaired users. I asked a
question about programming. I used tags.

Incidentally, sometime in the past few hours, someone has downrated my
question. Straight answer please: was that you?

Here's what downrating is for:

http://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/vote-down
> "When should I vote down?
> Use your downvotes whenever you encounter an egregiously sloppy, no-effort-expended post, or an answer that is clearly and perhaps dangerously incorrect.
> When you vote down, you are nudging that content "down" the page, so it will be seen by fewer people. Voting down answers is not something we want you to take lightly, so it is not free.
> The up-vote privilege comes first because that's what you should focus on: pushing great content to the top. Down-voting should be reserved for extreme cases. It's not meant as a substitute for communication and editing."

My question was the result of a month of trying to track this problem
down, then a couple of very late nights of my own time putting
together some test cases to narrow it down.
I gave reproducible examples of code, I linked to a test-case page I'd
made, I showed that I had researched before posting.
So if that WAS you, can you please explain in what way my question was
"an egregiously sloppy, no-effort-expended post"?

The net results of the downvote was that "it will be seen by fewer
people" as it says above.

I'll not get into a flame war with you on this list, it's not the
right place, but you have the right of reply, of course.
I don't know what your grudge against accessibility is, but I'll tell
you one thing - I won't be bullied into shutting up about it. If I get
told about an issue that affects accessibility, I'll attempt to
resolve that. So, sure, keep vandalising questions if you want, keep
following me round the web telling me I should delete questions if you
want but I'll tell you one thing - I've been around the internet long
enough, and I've put too much effort into making sites more
accessible, to let one web bully stop me.

Now, why were you recommending I delete my question again?

> --
> Ryan E. Benson
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 5:15 AM, Steve Faulkner < <EMAIL REMOVED> >wrote:
>
>> No problem, also tweeted @googleaccess
>> https://twitter.com/stevefaulkner/status/457069200381849600
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> > On 18 Apr 2014, at 08:51, Jonathan H < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi; first posting here.
>> >
>> > To cut a month-long story short, it was brought to my attention by a
>> > keyboard-only tester of a site I'm developing, that they cannot save
>> > SOME of the files when using Google Chrome.
>> >
>> > After hours of testing between browsers, operating systems, trying
>> > different doctypes etc, I finally ended up with this example page:
>> > http://goo.gl/6oyiGc
>> >
>> > Forget about the fact that the links are just to pages; it makes no
>> > difference, imagine they are files. Now try and download some of them
>> > with the keyboard. Remember, you're saving the target, not the current
>> > page.
>> > "Save link as", not "save as". See the problem now?!
>> >
>> > Unfortunately, the developers of Google Chrome think being able to use
>> > the browser if you're a keyboard user is a "feature request", removed
>> > the "bug" tag and changed it to "feature request" and lowered the
>> > priority.
>> > Even though they agree that it used to behave correctly.
>> >
>> > Remember, the menu key should EXACTLY emulate a right mouse click
>> > which of course blind/keyboard only users won't generally use. Any
>> > difference is a problem; any difference which depends arbitrarily on
>> > where in a list of words it is a bug.
>> >
>> > So would people mind taking a few moments to "star" this issue to give
>> > it some weight, and maybe add a comment?
>> > https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=362147
>> > You just need to be signed in with your regular Google/Gmail account.
>> >
>> > It's pretty much confirmed as a bug in my threads at
>> >
>> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23084579/how-can-i-diff-all-attributes-and-properties-of-two-dom-elements
>> > and
>> https://forum.jquery.com/topic/can-i-use-jquery-to-export-compare-or-repair-a-dom-element-giving-trouble-in-one-browser
>> >
>> > PS - techy bit: If you're a bit handy with the Blink DOM renderer or
>> > carry any weight in the accessible browser development community, your
>> > input is greatly appreciated!
>> >
>> > Thanks again.
>> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >>
> > >