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Re: Google Chrome blocks accessibility for keyboard users. Your input is needed.

for

From: James Nurthen
Date: Apr 18, 2014 1:35PM

I can't even open the context menu using the keyboard on Chrome. Shift+F10
appears to do nothing.

I guess this is another bug.


On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 11:05 AM, Jonathan H < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> On 18 April 2014 16:38, Ryan E. Benson < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
> > I recommend deleting or revising your StackOverflow question as well.
>
> "As well" as what? Andhy would I want to do that?
>
> > I attempted to edit your question since saving a link is not a mission
> > critical failure as you mentioned there.
>
> OK, seeing as you didn't respond to my points on Stackoverflow, I
> don't wish to turn this into a flame war, so perhaps the Webaim
> community can guide me as to whether my points are reasonable.
>
> My SO question made it clear it was a question relating to
> accessibility for users relying on keyboard-shortcuts solely affecting
> browsers built round the blink rendering engine, ie: Google Chrome.
>
> So your first action was to remove the following tags I had added.
> Here they are with their SO descriptions.
>
> *blink* "Blink is an open source rendering engine forked from WebKit.
> It is included in Google Chrome 28+ and Opera 14+." -
> - I made it clear in the first sentence that my issue is only with
> these browsers.
>
> *Accessibility* "The practice of making software which functions
> smoothly for users with a variety of disabilities, including
> blindness, deafness, and paralysis among others."
> - I explained clearly this was an issue affecting users who rely on
> the keyboard. I even mentioned blind users specifically.
>
> *keyboard-shortcuts* "Keyboard shortcuts provide quick access to
> application or system actions via combinatorial key presses".
> - I explained clearly that this issue ONLY affected users relying on
> keyboard shortcuts.
>
> So, why did you remove those three tags?
>
> You ADDED the tag "javascript" - this relates to the DOM, not
> javascript. I had already made it clear that I had tried some
> Javascript suggestions but these were not relevant.
>
> In your SO reply, you wrote:
>
> > "The part about "Save link as..." is not really relevant here".
>
> "Save link as" is ENTIRELY relevant here - the example was to
> demonstrate the problem, not to give a full use-case scenario for one
> user's particular browsing habits. Given that this makes saving files
> impossible (ie: a showstopper) IN SOME CIRCUMSTANCES for users who
> rely on the "keyboard shortcuts", who are usually also "accessibility"
> technology users,
>
> And as for "not a mission critical failure", your mission is to
> imagine you rely on the keyboard, you use Chrome, and you want to
> download the first link on the page, it's a very important file.
> Given that you wouldn't able to because of what you, yourself
> described as "a bug", I'd say that was "mission failed", wouldn't you?
>
> You also wrote:
>
> > I recommend deleting or revising your StackOverflow question
>
> Here's what Stackoverflow is:
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/tour
> - "Stack Overflow is a question and answer site for professional and
> enthusiast programmers".
>
> I am programming a site for visually impaired users. I asked a
> question about programming. I used tags.
>
> Incidentally, sometime in the past few hours, someone has downrated my
> question. Straight answer please: was that you?
>
> Here's what downrating is for:
>
> http://stackoverflow.com/help/privileges/vote-down
> > "When should I vote down?
> > Use your downvotes whenever you encounter an egregiously sloppy,
> no-effort-expended post, or an answer that is clearly and perhaps
> dangerously incorrect.
> > When you vote down, you are nudging that content "down" the page, so it
> will be seen by fewer people. Voting down answers is not something we want
> you to take lightly, so it is not free.
> > The up-vote privilege comes first because that's what you should focus
> on: pushing great content to the top. Down-voting should be reserved for
> extreme cases. It's not meant as a substitute for communication and
> editing."
>
> My question was the result of a month of trying to track this problem
> down, then a couple of very late nights of my own time putting
> together some test cases to narrow it down.
> I gave reproducible examples of code, I linked to a test-case page I'd
> made, I showed that I had researched before posting.
> So if that WAS you, can you please explain in what way my question was
> "an egregiously sloppy, no-effort-expended post"?
>
> The net results of the downvote was that "it will be seen by fewer
> people" as it says above.
>
> I'll not get into a flame war with you on this list, it's not the
> right place, but you have the right of reply, of course.
> I don't know what your grudge against accessibility is, but I'll tell
> you one thing - I won't be bullied into shutting up about it. If I get
> told about an issue that affects accessibility, I'll attempt to
> resolve that. So, sure, keep vandalising questions if you want, keep
> following me round the web telling me I should delete questions if you
> want but I'll tell you one thing - I've been around the internet long
> enough, and I've put too much effort into making sites more
> accessible, to let one web bully stop me.
>
> Now, why were you recommending I delete my question again?
>
> > --
> > Ryan E. Benson
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 18, 2014 at 5:15 AM, Steve Faulkner <
> <EMAIL REMOVED> >wrote:
> >
> >> No problem, also tweeted @googleaccess
> >> https://twitter.com/stevefaulkner/status/457069200381849600
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> > On 18 Apr 2014, at 08:51, Jonathan H < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hi; first posting here.
> >> >
> >> > To cut a month-long story short, it was brought to my attention by a
> >> > keyboard-only tester of a site I'm developing, that they cannot save
> >> > SOME of the files when using Google Chrome.
> >> >
> >> > After hours of testing between browsers, operating systems, trying
> >> > different doctypes etc, I finally ended up with this example page:
> >> > http://goo.gl/6oyiGc
> >> >
> >> > Forget about the fact that the links are just to pages; it makes no
> >> > difference, imagine they are files. Now try and download some of them
> >> > with the keyboard. Remember, you're saving the target, not the current
> >> > page.
> >> > "Save link as", not "save as". See the problem now?!
> >> >
> >> > Unfortunately, the developers of Google Chrome think being able to use
> >> > the browser if you're a keyboard user is a "feature request", removed
> >> > the "bug" tag and changed it to "feature request" and lowered the
> >> > priority.
> >> > Even though they agree that it used to behave correctly.
> >> >
> >> > Remember, the menu key should EXACTLY emulate a right mouse click
> >> > which of course blind/keyboard only users won't generally use. Any
> >> > difference is a problem; any difference which depends arbitrarily on
> >> > where in a list of words it is a bug.
> >> >
> >> > So would people mind taking a few moments to "star" this issue to give
> >> > it some weight, and maybe add a comment?
> >> > https://code.google.com/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=362147
> >> > You just need to be signed in with your regular Google/Gmail account.
> >> >
> >> > It's pretty much confirmed as a bug in my threads at
> >> >
> >>
> http://stackoverflow.com/questions/23084579/how-can-i-diff-all-attributes-and-properties-of-two-dom-elements
> >> > and
> >>
> https://forum.jquery.com/topic/can-i-use-jquery-to-export-compare-or-repair-a-dom-element-giving-trouble-in-one-browser
> >> >
> >> > PS - techy bit: If you're a bit handy with the Blink DOM renderer or
> >> > carry any weight in the accessible browser development community, your
> >> > input is greatly appreciated!
> >> >
> >> > Thanks again.
> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >>
> > > > > > > > > >