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Re: PDFs and Smartphones-A Match Not Made in Heaven?

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From: Marco Zehe
Date: Nov 28, 2014 6:57AM

Hi Lisa,

I'm not familiar with Daisy PDF, but Epub certainly would. iBooks on iOS
and OS X, as well as epub readers on other platforms I know usually make
use of the structure. I have seen headings, links, images, lists, and
other structural information used in iBooks on iOS without problems.

If tagged PDF isn't supported, PDF/UA is most likely not, either, which
is basically tagged PDF 2.0 as far as I understand it. So if Apple and
other app makers haven't decided to implement PDF tag support, it
probably won't make any difference which of the tagging standards is
being used.

Marco

On 28.11.2014 14:41, L Snider wrote:
> Sorry Gmail cut me off!
>
> Would a Daisy PDF solve these issues? I have seen it used a lot in e-books,
> but haven't seen use in business documents.
>
> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 7:32 AM, L Snider < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>
>> Oh and my next question would be, would PDF/UA help solve this issue? I
>> have been researching it to see if I will use it, and now I am researching
>> it more to see if it can help? Advice?
>>
>> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 7:26 AM, L Snider < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Gijs and Marco,
>>>
>>> So nothing has improved? This makes me mad...I just don't get it. I was
>>> hoping someone would say that I was wrong and missed something...
>>>
>>> So my next question is-what do we do?
>>>
>>> Do people who are blind use apps that show the structure?
>>>
>>> If not, then how can we use PDF at all? I try to structure PDFs so they
>>> are readable, but without tags it is just a jumble...
>>>
>>> What if a PDF is warranted (as is the case for most of what I have to
>>> look at or produce)? I am now thinking of offering HTML as an alternative,
>>> so at least that might help. Does anyone have any good Word>HTML convertors
>>> that take out the mess of Word code? I haven't had to do that in a while,
>>> so if anyone has a favourite do let me know.
>>>
>>> Wow, this is really going back to the early 2000s, how sad.
>>>
>>> Cheers
>>>
>>> Lisa
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 28, 2014 at 5:54 AM, Marco Zehe < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> my experience is that, aside from Adobe Reader on Windows plus
>>>> supporting screen readers, PDF tags or whatever it's called nowadays
>>>> isn't supported by anyone. Even apps such as Voice Dream Reader do not,
>>>> as far as I know, expose PDF tag information. And neither does Adobe
>>>> Reader for iOS. The Mac version of that isn't even VoiceOver accessible
>>>> at all.
>>>>
>>>> On Android, according to my limited testing, the situation is just as
>>>> dismal.
>>>>
>>>> Marco
>>>>
>>>> On 28.11.2014 09:31, Gijs Veyfeyken wrote:
>>>>> Apple doesn't support PDF tags.
>>>>> All the structural information in tags (tables, headings, lists,
>>>> alt-texts, etcetera) is lost for VoiceOver users.
>>>>> Not only in iOS but also in Mac OS.
>>>>> http://duff-johnson.com/2013/03/01/inaccessible-by-choice-pdf-on-macos
>>>>>
>>>>> Gijs
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27 Nov 2014, at 20:00, <EMAIL REMOVED> wrote:
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> Today's Topics:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. PDFs and Smartphones-A Match Not Made in Heaven? (L Snider)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: L Snider < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>>>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>>>>> Date: 26 Nov 2014 20:37:08 CET
>>>>>> Reply-To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>>>>> Subject: [WebAIM] PDFs and Smartphones-A Match Not Made in Heaven?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> HI Everyone,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> My last discussion got me thinking about PDFs, iphones and android
>>>> phones.
>>>>>> I can make a pretty accessible PDF (using a pretty accessible Word
>>>> doc).
>>>>>> However, I am now researching PDFs and smartphones, which don't seem
>>>> that
>>>>>> smart now...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have read about apps that might help with 'reading' the PDF, but in
>>>> the
>>>>>> end are PDFs doomed? What if one needs to use a PDF that has tables,
>>>> etc.
>>>>>> for a specific use, ie: a handbook that does not lend itself to html?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I can still produce my lovely pretty accessible PDF, but if a mobile
>>>> user
>>>>>> who has VoiceOver reads it, then they rely on reading order alone for
>>>> the
>>>>>> most part? Would love to hear what all of you think and what you are
>>>> doing
>>>>>> with your PDFs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Lisa
>>>>>>
>>>>>> PS-Two articles were of particular interest:
>>>>>> I found a couple of articles that peaked my interest:
>>>>>>
>>>> http://webguide.gov.au/accessibility-usability/accessibility/pdf-accessibility/
>>>> https://www.ssbbartgroup.com/blog/2013/09/06/pdf-accessibility-on-mobile-devices/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>
>>>
> > >