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Re: Are fieldset and legend still relevant?

for

From: Jonathan C. Cohn
Date: Jan 1, 2015 4:10PM

I finally got a chance to look at the examples you provided. In VoiceOver, the FieldSet appears as a Group box in both DOM and Group mode. One needs to interact/ stop interact with the FieldSet in order to change the radio buttons, so when one sees gender while navigating wit the VoiceOver cursor neither example one or example 2 will tell you what gender is selected until you interact with the FieldSet and examine the selected radio button. and if one clicks on goto Element commands it will first go to the Gender FieldSet box and then into the FieldSet to the Radio Buttons. So While tabbing will not read the gender information at least not in default verbosity, it does recognize that the FieldSet is a grouping and requires the VoiceOVer user to interact with the field set to edit any changes. I have actually found that this is a bit annoying in the VoiceOVer web implementation .



In JAWs 15, Advanced mode does not speak Group Box names, and since at least VoiceOver considers the FieldSet a group Box with the Legend being the GroupBox Name, it is not terribly surprising that advanced mode in JAWS does not speak the FieldSet legend. In any case when using the insert-tab I believe JAWS will speak the Group Box name even if it is not enabled to be spoken with default navigation. I therefore am declaring that JAWS not reading the FFieldSet in Advanced mode is a design decision and not a bug.

Jonathan Cohn
to the “Mail” radio button.
Best wishes,

Jonathan



On Dec 30, 2014, at 10:55, Lynn Holdsworth < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:

> Hi Birkir,
>
> Example 3 has a fieldset/legend, some ARIA labels and an explicitly
> associated label. So you still get the box drawn around the group as
> well as the clickable labels.
>
> As regards the third drawback, I take your point there. Even if the
> labels are ordered in a way that causes the most important one to be
> spoken first, one must still wait until all labels are read out before
> being able to hear the type and state of the control. It's possible to
> customise JAWS and possibly other screenreaders to speak control type
> and state first, but most users are unlikely to know how to do this.
>
> Using a fieldset and legend seems to have the same drawback. I can't
> find a way using VoiceOver to read the legend, nor in JAWS to only
> read it once when an item in the group receives focus.
>
> So on balance I'd still propose that the combo in example 3 is the
> most comprehensive solution.
>
> Kind regards, Lynn
>
> On 30/12/2014, Birkir R. Gunnarsson < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> Hey guys
>>
>> Joy, well said.
>> For the examples, at a glance.
>> Yes, the labeling in examples 2 and 3 works, and I would pass it.
>> However it has three drawbacks.
>> - Using aria-labelledby rather than the html labeling decreases the
>> clickable area of the radiobuttons (for users with dexterity
>> impairments larger clickable area is always a plus). When using label
>> for user can click on the label and focus moves into its associated
>> radiobutton. With aria-labeling this does not happen.
>>
>> - Fielset/legend construct usually draws a visual box around the
>> legend and choices, which is good for users with cognitive
>> impairments. using ARIA group role does not do this, nor the aria
>> labeling, .. though the page designer can always create these types of
>> things using CSS anyway.
>>
>> - this set up will force screen readers to read legend for every
>> single radiobutton choice, which can get very annoying when the legend
>> is very wrong.
>> Using fieldset/legend or corresponding ARIA group role users can
>> customize, at least to some degree, how often they want to hear the
>> legend.
>> I only want to hear it once, when focus moves into the radiobuttons.
>> I have not looked at Survey Monkey lately, but it used to drive me
>> bananas, apples and pairs, to try and take their surveys, because the
>> bloody question (and instructions sometimes) was read out in its
>> entirety before the label of any radiobutton choice.
>> Again, I do not know what they used there, I would have to go back,
>> check, and hope they have replaced whatever structure they used.
>>
>>
>> So, again, your way is not wrong, I would not fail it, but it has some
>> drawbacks that I would point out if I were doing an accessibility
>> assessment of the page, at least best practice items to discuss, not
>> outright violations.
>> Note though that I only took a quick look, it is one of those crazy
>> days at work, so I have not had time to analyze the code in any depth.
>>
>> Cheers
>> -B
>>
>> On 12/30/14, Thomas McKeithan II < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>> I concur with Joy. We should determine conformance to the standards basd
>>> upon how the page is coded and not how a specific AT Tool behavors. For
>>> years I've advocated fot testing using AT Tools with the "out of the Box"
>>> settings rather than customizations.
>>>
>>> Respectfully,
>>> Thomas Lee McKeithan II
>>> QSSI
>>> http://www.qssinc.com
>>> 508 SME, SSQA Solutions Center
>>> 10480 Little Patuxent Pkwy , Suite 350
>>> Columbia , MD 21044
>>> (301 )977-7884 x1058 (Work)
>>> (202) 276-6437 (Cell)
>>>
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