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Re: Flexbox layout ordering and tabbing order

for

From: Alastair Campbell
Date: Oct 13, 2015 8:07AM

Jonathan Avila wrote:

> we need to uncover if there are reasonable cases where the visual order
> and reading order could differ.


Definitely, I'm hoping people can provide examples where that might be the
case, even if I argue against them ;-)


1. When a data table also contains form fields. In some cases with a grid
> the reading order could be down each column but the user may actually want
> to read across.
>

I'm not sure that you would use Flexbox or grids within a data table?
(Although I'm not sure why you would use a form in a data table either!) I
don't mean to dismiss the scenario though, is there a public facing example
you could share, just to get an idea of why people would do that?



> 2. When a site contains repeated information such as social media tools,
> navigation, etc. above an article or page. While skip navigation
> techniques could be used they may not always be available to all users.
> Getting past these areas to find the start of real content can be
> frustrating and time consuming.
>

As Patrick said, a keyboard user may want to get to them, and may expect to
go through them anyway so could tab too fast or miss links at the top.

Screen reader users have more controls to make use of and should be able to
get to the main heading or 'main'.

You might pick-up that I'm biasing towards visual-keyboard users. It isn't
a prioritisation of audience, it is simply that (from watching) the effects
are greater for that audience. When you are looking at the screen and the
visible focus wonders around like a drunken post-modern dancer, it is
really hard to hit the right link. Screen reader users have more controls,
and more ability to understand the structure (when present). So long as the
site is consistent and has landmarks/skip links, the order doesn't seem to
matter as much.


What we really need is the flexibility to have user agents collapse or
> re-order tangential content like this to meet the user's needs.
>

Ok, but that is something a user-agent would have to do, it would be
hideously complex to describe to authors what the difference orders might
be.

For the purpose of what to do with CSS layouts, would you want there to be
different orders?

Thanks,

-Alastair