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Re: Web Accessibility For Notetakers

for

From: Ella Yu
Date: Nov 19, 2015 8:55AM

Sorry=20for=20my=20mistakes.=20What=20I=20mean=20is=20some=20of=20the=20ele=
ments=20are=20a=20
little=20weird,=20but=20nothing=20terrifying.

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
From:=20Cliff=20Tyllick=20< <EMAIL REMOVED>
To:=20WebAIM=20Discussion=20List=20< <EMAIL REMOVED>
Date=20sent:=20Thu,=2019=20Nov=202015=2001:10:37=20-0600
Subject:=20Re:=20[WebAIM]=20Web=20Accessibility=20For=20Notetakers

"Ever=20so=20slightly=20too=20complicated"?

Ella,=20in=20many=20cases=20that's=20an=20extreme=20understatement.=20Whene=
ver=20I=20
have=20given=20a=20presentation,=20I=20have=20found=20myself=20showing=20on=
e=20
example=20of=20an=20interface=20that=20is=20too=20complicated=20for=20every=
one.=20
(It's=20never=20the=20same=20example.=20Often,=20I=20find=20an=20example=20=
that=20is=20
actually=20easier=20to=20figure=20out=20if=20you=20rely=20on=20a=20screen=20=
reader=20but=20
can't=20see=20the=20screen.)

Many=20who=20read=20your=20message=20will=20infer=20that=20you=20mean=20the=
se=20sites=20
should=20regress=20to=20a=20plain=20format.=20I'm=20sure=20you=20aren't=20s=
uggesting=20
that.=20What=20you=20mean=20is=20that=20the=20available=20features=20should=
=20be=20easy=20
for=20everyone=20to=20discover=20and=20use=E2=80=94or,=20in=20the=20parlanc=
e=20of=20WCAG=20
2.0,=20"perceive"=20and=20"operate."

There=20are=20two=20solutions=20to=20that=20problem=20that=20we=20haven't=20=
pursued=20
enough:

1.=20Site=20owners,=20content=20managers,=20designers,=20and=20developers=20=

should=20conduct=20more=20usability=20testing=20of=20their=20designs,=20and=
=20they=20
should=20include=20people=20with=20disabilities=20among=20the=20participant=
s.=20
Those=20who=20do=20will=20make=20it=20easier=20for=20all=20people=20to=20us=
e=20the=20Web.

2.=20The=20accessibility=20community=20should=20build=20and=20maintain=20an=
=20
application=20any=20Web=20professional=20can=20use=20to=20discover=20known=
=20
techniques=20for=20producing=20usable=20and=20accessible=20interactions=20i=
n=20
the=20presentation=20technology=20they=20are=20using.=20The=20same=20applic=
ation=20
would=20allow=20developers=20to=20submit=20new=20techniques=20they=20have=20=
used=20to=20
solve=20a=20previously=20unsolved=20problem=20or=20to=20improve=20upon=20an=
=20
existing=20solution.=20Each=20technique=20submitted=20should=20be=20specifi=
c;=20
include=20appropriate=20examples=20of=20its=20implementation;=20be=20tagged=
=20
according=20to=20the=20interface=20or=20interaction=20(form,=20text=20input=
,=20
error=20checking,=20labels=20for=20fieldsets,=20navigation=20menus,=20and=20=
so=20
on),=20the=20presentation=20technology=20(HTML,=20PDF,=20XHTML,=20Word=20fo=
r=20
Windows,=20Open=20Office,=20Drupal,=20WordPress,=20Plone,=20Bootstrap.js,=20=
and=20
so=20on),=20the=20presentation=20environments=20in=20which=20it=20works=20(=
video,=20
audio,=20wearables,=20smart=20phones,=20large=20monitors,=20haptic=20
interfaces,=20and=20others),=20the=20disability=20addressed,=20the=20releva=
nt=20
WCAG=20success=20criteria,=20and=20other=20relevant=20features=20if=20I've=
=20missed=20
any;=20and=20be=20linked=20to=20closely=20related=20solutions,=20relevant=20=

tutorials,=20explanations=20of=20the=20underlying=20principles,=20and=20the=
=20
like.

This=20application=20would=20make=20it=20easier=20for=20all=20authors,=20co=
ntent=20
managers,=20designers,=20and=20developers=20to=20build=20a=20highly=20usabl=
e=20and=20
accessible=20Web.=20It=20would=20also=20help=20us=20win=20over=20people=20w=
ho=20fear=20
that=20it's=20difficult,=20expensive,=20or=20time=20consuming=20to=20build=
=20
accessible,=20usable=20interactions=E2=80=94because=20instead=20of=20having=
=20to=20
stop=20everything=20to=20take=20a=20tutorial=20or=20figure=20out=20a=20chec=
klist=20and=20
its=20results,=20they=20could=20get=20a=20quick=20solution=20to=20their=20s=
pecific=20
problem=20in=20their=20first=20experience=20with=20making=20their=20product=
=20
accessible.=20(If=20there=20is=20no=20solution,=20or=20at=20least=20no=20id=
eal=20
solution,=20they=20could=20find=20that=20out=20quickly=20and=20revise=20the=
ir=20plans=20
accordingly.=20Maybe=20that=20means=20they=20would=20give=20this=20phase=20=
of=20their=20
project=20more=20time.=20Maybe=20it=20means=20they=20would=20scrap=20the=20=
original=20
approach=20and=20use=20another=20instead.)

If=20the=20W3C=20won't=20coordinate=20the=20building=20of=20this=20applicat=
ion=20and=20
then=20host=20it,=20the=20IAAP=20should.=20Rob=20Sinclair,=20the=20first=20=
president=20
of=20the=20IAAP,=20lamented=20in=20an=20interview=20that=20he=20had=20once=
=20had=20to=20let=20
a=20group=20of=20developers=20know=20that=20the=20solution=20they=20had=20w=
orked=20so=20
hard=20to=20develop=20was=20a=20duplicate=20of=20a=20solution=20others=20ha=
d=20
developed=20two=20years=20earlier.=20With=20this=20application=20in=20place=
,=20it=20
would=20be=20highly=20unlikely=20for=20that=20circumstance=20to=20arise=20a=
gain.

Because=20even=20the=20most=20seasoned=20developer=20could=20quickly=20disc=
over=20
whether=20someone=20has=20finally=20figured=20out=20how=20to=20build=20a=20=
carrousel=20
that=20will=20thrill=20users=20with=20its=20accessibility,=20usability,=20a=
nd=20
relevance=20every=20bit=20as=20much=20as=20it=20thrills=20marketers=20and=20=

executives=20with=20whatever=20it=20is=20that=20thrills=20them=20about=20
carrousels.

Best=20regards,

Cliff=20Tyllick
Accessibility=20curmudgeon=20on=20my=20own=20time.
In=20my=20day=20job,=20accessibility=20specialist=20for=20the=20Texas=20Dep=
artment=20
of=20Assistive=20and=20Rehabilitative=20Services.

Sent=20from=20my=20iPhone
Although=20its=20spellcheck=20often=20saves=20me,=20all=20goofs=20in=20sent=
=20
messages=20are=20its=20fault.

=20On=20Nov=2018,=202015,=20at=2011:38=20PM,=20Ella=20Yu=20<ellaxyu@gmail.c=
om>=20wrote:

=20I=20totally=20agree=20with=20you,=20but=20some=20sites=20could=20be=20ma=
de=20somewhat=20
simpler=20but=20still=20have=20the=20same=20features.=20Some=20sites=20are=
=20just=20
ever=20so=20slightly=20too=20complicated.

=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
=20From:=20"Harrison,=20Rita=20L"=20< <EMAIL REMOVED>
=20To:=20WebAIM=20Discussion=20List=20< <EMAIL REMOVED>
=20Date=20sent:=20Wed,=2018=20Nov=202015=2021:49:22=20+0000
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[WebAIM]=20Web=20Accessibility=20For=20Notetakers

=20Good=20Afternoon=20List,

=20After=20reading=20some=20of=20the=20comments,=20I=20would=20like=20to=20=
share=20my=20
observation=20and=20personal=20opinion=20as=20follows,=20for=20those=20who=
=20may=20
not=20be=20familiar=20with=20Notetaking=20Devices.

=20First,=20I=20absolutely=20agree=20that=20there=20is=20no=20need=20to=20m=
ake=20sites=20
simpler,=20if=20they=20are=20coded=20correctly.=20=20Individuals=20using=20=

Assistive=20Technology=20(AT),=20should=20be=20able=20to=20navigate=20witho=
ut=20a=20
problem,=20provided=20there=20is=20proper=20structure=20and=20all=20element=
s=20are=20
labeled.

=20Braille=20Notetakers=20serve=20many=20other=20purposes=20than=20just=20s=
urfing=20
the=20web.=20=20Having=20and=20using=20a=20braille=20display=20is=20an=20im=
portant=20
piece=20in=20braille=20literacy,=20which=20allows=20someone=20the=20ability=
=20to=20
read=20and=20write=20with=20ease,=20as=20those=20who=20have=20vision=20read=
=20and=20write=20
print.

=20I=20personally=20use=20and=20have=20done=20so=20for=20years,=20a=20Brail=
le=20Notetaker=20
and=20find=20it=20much=20more=20portable=20to=20use=20when=20I=20lead=20and=
/or=20attend=20
meetings,=20when=20I'm=20doing=20a=20formal=20Presentation=20and=20for=20ta=
king=20
notes=20on=20the=20fly.

=20Rather=20than=20discourage=20someone=20from=20purchasing=20and=20using=20=
a=20
Braille=20Notetaker,=20perhaps=20the=20focus=20should=20be=20on=20those=20w=
ho=20
manufacture=20and=20sell=20these=20devices,=20to=20use=20a=20more=20current=
=20
browser,=20so=20everyone=20using=20these=20wonderful=20devices,=20are=20abl=
e=20to=20
access=20the=20information=20they=20need=20when=20they=20need=20it,=20becau=
se=20the=20
cost=20of=20these=20devices=20is=20high=20and=20we=20should=20expect=20to=20=
be=20able=20to=20
access=20information=20online=20using=20a=20current=20browser.

=20I=20absolutely=20understand=20some=20of=20the=20frustration=20voiced=20h=
ere=20and=20
I=20thank=20you=20for=20affording=20me=20the=20opportunity=20to=20share=20m=
y=20view.

=20I=20hope=20everyone=20is=20having=20a=20great=20Wednesday!

=20Rita=20L.=20Harrison,=20FDA=20508=20Coordinator
=20Lead,=20508=20Web=20Task=20Force
=20Chairperson,=20Advisory=20Committee=20for=20Employees=20with=20Disabilit=
ies=20
(ACED)
=20OO/OIMT/DBPS/IIB
=20Web=20Support=20Team=20(WST)
=20Phone:=20=20805-620-0203
= <EMAIL REMOVED>

=20-----Original=20Message-----
=20From:=20WebAIM-Forum=20[mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ]=20
On=20Behalf=20Of=20Lucy=20Greco
=20Sent:=20Wednesday,=20November=2018,=202015=2010:34=20AM
=20To:=20WebAIM=20Discussion=20List
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[WebAIM]=20Web=20Accessibility=20For=20Notetakers

=20blind=20users=20are=20able=20to=20use=20all=20of=20the=20sites=20you=20=
=20mention=20there=20
is=20no=20reason=20to=20make=20these=20more=20simplified.=20what=20you=20re=
ally=20
should=20be=20asking=20for=20is=20ways=20to=20learn=20how=20to=20use=20mode=
rn=20web=20apps.=20
using=20devices=20like=20a=20braille=20note=20or=20braille=20sense=20are=20=
crutches.=20
these=20devices=20were=20never=20meant=20to=20be=20the=20way=20to=20access=
=20the=20
INTERNET=20i=20get=20vary=20=20frustrated=20when=20blind=20people=20say=20i=
=20can't=20use=20
a=20web=20site=20with=20my=2012=20year=20old=20or=20more=20technology=20my=
=20advice=20to=20a=20
person=20wanting=20to=20by=20a=20note=20taker=20today=20is=20save=20your=20=
money=20and=20
pay=20for=20training=20on=20how=20to=20use=20a=20computer=20and=20mobile=20=
phone=20to=20do=20
your=20tasks=20and=20you=20will=20still=20have=20=20money=20left=20at=20the=
=20end=20to=20by=20
things=20on=20the=20INTERNET=20that=20your=20modern=20devices=20can=20acces=
s.=20i=20get=20
vary=20upset=20when=20students=20come=20to=20me=20saying=20i=20can't=20use=
=20a=20web=20site=20=20
with=20my=20braille=20note.=20when=20the=20web=20site=20is=20accessible=20i=
f=20they=20
were=20just=20using=20the=20write=20tech=20to=20do=20so.=20in=20the=20age=20=
of=20bring=20your=20
own=20device=20we=20have=20a=20responsibility=20to=20be=20sure=20the=20=20d=
evice=20we=20are=20
bringing=20meets=20the=20base=20line=20for=20security=20and=20access=20that=
=20every=20
one=20else=20has=20to=20meet.=20If=20a=20blind=20person=20is=20using=20a=20=
device=20like=20a=20
braille=20note=20to=20do=20things=20like=20enter=20there=20ssn=20or=20other=
=20personal=20
data=20its=20only=20a=20matter=20of=20time=20before=20that=20data=20is=20us=
ed=20against=20
them

=20Lucia=20Greco
=20Web=20Accessibility=20Evangelist
=20IST=20-=20Architecture,=20Platforms,=20and=20Integration
=20University=20of=20California,=20Berkeley
=20(510)=20289-6008=20skype:=20lucia1-greco
=20http://webaccess.berkeley.edu

=20On=20Wed,=20Nov=2018,=202015=20at=209:36=20AM,=20Ella=20Yu=20<ellaxyu@gm=
ail.com>=20
wrote:

=20Thank=20you=20for=20your=20insights,=20Simon.


=20-----=20Original=20Message=20-----
=20From:=20Simon=20Evans=20< <EMAIL REMOVED>
=20To:=20WebAIM=20Discussion=20List=20< <EMAIL REMOVED>
=20Date=20sent:=20Wed,=2018=20Nov=202015=2017:19:09=20+0000
=20Subject:=20Re:=20[WebAIM]=20Web=20Accessibility=20For=20Notetakers

=20Hi=20Ella,

=20WinCE=20with=20only=20IE6=20being=20so=20popular=20in=20disability=20con=
texts=20
definitely
=20gives=20this=20merit;=20=20its=20still=20supported/licensed=20until=2020=
16/2018=20
too,=20=20so=20brand=20new=20BrailleNotes=20and=20several=20popular=20
AAC/enviroment=20focused=20devices=20still=20ship=20with=20it.=20Even=20whe=
n=20
newer=20hardware=20allows=20a=20move=20to=20later=20operating=20systems,=20=
the=20high=20
cost=20of=20these=20devices=20will=20often=20mean
=20a=20geological=20lifespan=20for=20earlier=20models.

=20Accessibility=20was=20a=20good=20argument=20for=20maintaining=20limited=
=20'IE6=20
support'
=20on=20websites,=20but=20one=20that=20was=20drowned=20out=20by=20the=20hug=
e=20weight=20of=20
hate=20against=20it=20in=20general=20use=20and=20the=20focus=20on=20screenr=
eaders=20and=20
new
=20Standards=20in=20accessibility=20circles.=20Since=20its=20official=20dem=
ise=20on=20
desktops,=20most=20developers=20probably=20don't=20consider=20IE6=20for=20a=
n=20
instant=20and
=20awareness=20of=20specialist=20hardware=20is=20generally=20quite=20low.

=20I'd=20guess=20if=20you=20raise=20the=20prominence=20of=20the=20use=20cas=
e,=20some=20
influential
=20bloggers/writers=20might=20pick=20up=20on=20it=20-=20it's=20quite=20an=20=

interesting,
=20'counter-cultural'=20issue=20and=20one=20that=20adversely=20effects=20
thousands=20of
=20people.

=20Simon

=20On=2011/11/2015=201:28=20AM,=20Ella=20Yu=20wrote:
=20Hi=20all,
=20I'm=20hoping=20this=20is=20acceptable=20for=20this=20list.=20I'm=20wonde=
ring=20if=20it=20
is=20possible=20to=20make=20certain=20sites=20such=20as=20outlook,=20gmail,=
=20google=20
services=20(play,=20groups=20and=20drive)=20and=20yahoo=20services=20more=20=

accessible=20for=20people=20who=20have=20old=20browsers=20and=20are=20unabl=
e=20to=20
upgrade.=20I=20think=20these=20sites=20could=20be=20simplified=20and=20have=
=20the=20
same=20essential=20features.=20What=20do=20you=20think?

To=20manage=20your=20subscription,=20visit=20http://list.webaim.org/
List=20archives=20at=20http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
Address=20list=20messages=20to= <EMAIL REMOVED>