E-mail List Archives

Re: Accessibility of a date picker?

for

From: Birkir R. Gunnarsson
Date: May 26, 2016 3:15PM


Whoops, I guess it is time to upgrade my Jaws to 17 *grin*.
Thanks for the info.


On 5/26/16, Bryan Garaventa < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
> In recent tests, role=table is now supported in IE11 using JAWS17 plus in
> Firefox and Chrome, plus in NVDA in Chrome. This should also now work in
> Safari via webkit.
>
> The only variable that still needs to be worked out by JAWS and NVDA is the
> proper support of aria-owns as reflected in the accessibility tree, or in
> the case of IE11 as the attribute is meant to be used with multiple ID refs
> and how this affects the reading order.
>
> Bryan Garaventa
> Accessibility Fellow
> SSB BART Group, Inc.
> <EMAIL REMOVED>
> 415.624.2709 (o)
> www.SSBBartGroup.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On Behalf
> Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 10:20 AM
> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Accessibility of a date picker?
>
> True.
> But the table role is new and, in my most recent testing, is not supported
> anywhere (well, IE/FF with Jaws/NVDA).
> I have had to recommend building a read-only grid once or twice where there
> was no way of implementing an HTML table.
> That being said, I totally agree with you Bryan, that a grid is an
> interactice construct and should cause a.t. to go into forms mode.
> Unfortuantely the is a discontted in that the ARIA spec makes no user agent
> recommendation for different roles.
> I know people are working on supporting documentation to address this gp,
> though I am not well versed in the details. But I know it is needed.
> -B
>
>
> On 5/26/16, Bryan Garaventa < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> Actually the behavior that aria-readonly="true" on a grid as not going
>> into Forms Mode is a screen reader bug.
>>
>> A grid is an interactive construct according to the spec, regardless
>> whether it is readonly or not, and it is meant to be interacted with
>> using the keyboard.
>>
>> If the intent is to build a data table instead, then the developer
>> should be using role=table and it's associated roles in accordance
>> with the table mappings at
>> http://whatsock.com/training/matrices/#table
>> This is why the table role was added to the spec, to provide an
>> accessible construct for non-interactive tables.
>>
>> Since aria-readonly is supported on role="gridcell, role=columnheader,
>> and role=rowheader cells for example, you could easily have a table
>> where some cells marked as column or row header cells are meant to be
>> readonly but others are not, and if you are not allowed to enter Forms
>> Mode on some but not others or if Forms Mode gets booted out when you
>> arrow to a readonly cell, it will impair intuitive navigation.
>>
>> Please file this behavior as a bug if you notice this happening.
>>
>> Bryan Garaventa
>> Accessibility Fellow
>> SSB BART Group, Inc.
>> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>> 415.624.2709 (o)
>> www.SSBBartGroup.com
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
>> Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
>> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 7:00 AM
>> To: WebAIM Discussion List < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Acessibility of a date picker?
>>
>> That is precisely what we did with the Deque calendar widget in fact.
>> It was developed in late 2014, and it was necessary back then, screen
>> readers would not consistently go into forms mode.
>> I did a test more recently, and the grid role caused Jaws and NVDA
>> with IE and FF to go into application/forms mode, so it appears that
>> the application role is no longer needed (though it might still be
>> acceptable for backward compatibility).
>> And, yeah, it does make some sense that aria-readonly attribute on a
>> grid prevents Jaws from going into forms mode.
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/26/16, Jonathan Avila < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>>> The table with role="grid" has aria-readonly="true" which is
>>>> probably what is preventing screen readers from going into forms mode.
>>>
>>> One additional thing many accessible date pickers use is the role of
>>> application to force Windows screen readers into forms mode.
>>> Generally
>>> we
>>> don't recommend this type of behavior but in some cases it may be
>>> needed.
>>> From my experience NVDA and Firefox seem to go into forms/focus mode
>>> when you focus a grid but as Birkir mentions with JAWS and Firefox
>>> JAWS will not go into forms mode when aria-readonly is set to true.
>>> If it is not set to true then JAWS will go into forms mode on a grid.
>>> So there would appear to be differences between ATs and perhaps
>>> browsers as well -- so that may be why in the past people resorted to
>>> wrapping the grid with role of application.
>>>
>>> Jonathan
>>>
>>> Jonathan Avila
>>> Chief Accessibility Officer
>>> SSB BART Group
>>> <EMAIL REMOVED>
>>> 703.637.8957 (Office)
>>> Visit us online: Website | Twitter | Facebook | Linkedin | Blog Check
>>> out our Digital Accessibility Webinars!
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: WebAIM-Forum [mailto: <EMAIL REMOVED> ] On
>>> Behalf Of Birkir R. Gunnarsson
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 26, 2016 6:12 AM
>>> To: WebAIM Discussion List
>>> Subject: Re: [WebAIM] Acessibility of a date picker?
>>>
>>> Ach! Donnerwetter!
>>> ARIA is not used properly.
>>> The table with role="grid" has aria-readonly="true" which is probably
>>> what is preventing screen readers from going into forms mode.
>>>
>>> It uses aria-activedescendant to manage focus, I'd have to see the
>>> JavaScript to determine whether the id target for that attribute is
>>> being correctly updated as user presses the arrow keys (the ID should
>>> be updated to point to the active cell in the grid as the user
>>> navigates within it).
>>> But I see a warning sign that the grid itself is not in focus order,
>>> which is necessary for aria-activedescdnant to work, see:
>>> http://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria/states_and_properties#aria-activedescen
>>> d
>>> ant
>>>
>>> The divs turn buttons you mention need to have both an onclick event
>>> as well as an onkeypress listening for the appropriate keys (13 for
>>> enter, 32 for spacebar).
>>> This one will need some ARIA TLC.
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/26/16, Sonja Weckenmann < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>>> Hello,
>>>>
>>>> I'm evaluating a german airport-website. There are problems with the
>>>> date picker.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.dortmund-airport.de/flugplan
>>>>
>>>> I think keybord navigation is quite good when not using a screenreader.
>>>> When using NVDA/FF or JAWS/IE keybord navigation doesn't work:
>>>>
>>>> - Navigation with up arrow and down arrow doesn't work.
>>>> - It isn't possible to activate the buttons for changing the month
>>>> and the two buttons "Schließen" and "Löschen".
>>>> - I'm not quite sure, but I think it is also not easy to get the
>>>> month spoken with the screenreader?
>>>> - The date of each cell has an aria-label="27.05.2016" but it is not
>>>> spoken by the screenreader. I dont't know why.
>>>>
>>>> Similar problems occur when trying to select the departure time for
>>>> example.
>>>>
>>>> Does anybody know whether it is a question of incorrect
>>>> implementation of ARIA or is it a scripting problem?
>>>> Why does keybord navigation work without screenreader and when using
>>>> screenreader it is bad?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks a lot
>>>> sonja
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Sonja Weckenmann
>>>> BIK für Alle
>>>> BITV-Test
>>>>
>>>> c/o DIAS GmbH
>>>> Schulterblatt 36 / 20357 Hamburg
>>>>
>>>> Telefon 040 43 18 75 18
>>>> Fax 040 43 18 75 19
>>>>
>>>> www.bik-fuer-alle.de
>>>> www.bitvtest.de
>>>> >>>> >>>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>>> >>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>>> >>> >>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>> >>> >>> >>> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>>> >>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
>> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >> >> >> archives at http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
>> >>
>
>
> --
> Work hard. Have fun. Make history.
> > > http://webaim.org/discussion/archives
> > > > > >


--
Work hard. Have fun. Make history.