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Re: How to handle Heading under Section

for

From: Alexander Karelas
Date: Apr 29, 2018 11:36PM

Here's my page, in case you'd like to look at it, to better assess the
situation: https://forums.baza.gr

The sections (with headings) that I'm talking about are all of the 4
<section> elements on the page.




On 29/04/2018 09:09 μμ, Birkir R. Gunnarsson wrote:
> My opinion (not hard truth, just opinion) is that ARIA landmarks are
> most useful when describing visual structure (fixed sections) of the
> page, whereas headings describe the structure of the content.
> so landmarks are highly useful for separateing page header, main body
> and footer, also useful for marking fixed sections of the page like a
> stock ticker (complementary) navigation menus (account navigation,
> left navigation) etc. They are an equivalent to seeing sections of the
> page at fixed locations on the screen.
>
> I also think landmarks quickly lose their usefulness when you have too
> many of them, I'd say a rule of thumb should be no more than 5
> landmarks for a simple page, maybe 8 for a massive page.
>
> In your case, without seeing the page, I don't think you should assign
> landmarks to sections of content already identified with headings. It
> will increase verbosity with very little actual benefit.
> a region landmark without a label is not supposed to be a landmark. If
> a screen reader presents one as such, file an issue with the screen
> reader vendor.
>
>
>
>
> On 4/29/18, glen walker < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>> NVDA does let me turn off landscape announcements but it turns it off
>> everywhere. I'm not sure if I could turn it off just for a particular
>> site. So in theory you could ask your users to change their screen reader
>> settings to accommodate your design decisions.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 10:17 AM, Jonathan Cohn < <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On the other hand Screen readers probably could be adjusted so that they
>>> would not double speak when the label of the section just entered is the
>>> same as the element with virtual focus.
>>>
>>> -Jonathan
>>>
>>> Best wishes,
>>>
>>> Jonathan Cohn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Apr 29, 2018, at 2:57 AM, glen walker < <EMAIL REMOVED> > wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A <section> <https://www.w3.org/TR/html53/sections.html#the-section-
>>> element>
>>>> element has a region role <https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#region>
>>> by
>>>> default, and a region is a landmark. While it's good to have bypass
>>> blocks
>>>> that a screen reader can use, it might be overkill to have both a
>>>> heading
>>>> and a landmark. The problem is you might have some screen reader users
>>>> that like to navigate by headings and others that like to navigate by
>>>> landmarks. Hearing the heading twice is not ideal, but is certainly
>>> better
>>>> than not being labeled.
>>>>
>>>> Without knowing more details about your situation, my initial reaction
>>>> is
>>>> that the <section> is not needed. If you can't prevent the <section>
>>> from
>>>> being generated, then you might want to consider removing the landmark
>>> role
>>>> of the <section>. You can do this two ways:
>>>>
>>>> 1. If a <section> doesn't have a label (aria-label or aria-labelledby),
>>>> then most screen readers ignore the region as a landmark.
>>>> 2. You can set role="presentation"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 12:18 AM, Alexander Karelas <
>>> <EMAIL REMOVED> >
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> My page has 4 sections.
>>>>>
>>>>> Each of the 4 sections contains a big heading.
>>>>>
>>>>> My question is:
>>>>>
>>>>> Should I label the 4 sections? If so, I would ideally like to label
>>>>> them
>>>>> with the 4 headings (with aria-labelledby, maybe).
>>>>>
>>>>> But when I do that, NVDA reads the heading twice when I press 'h' to
>>>>> browse the headings. It reads it once because I entered the section,
>>>>> and
>>>>> it reads it once more because it's reading the heading itself.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is that considered annoying? I mean, when the user presses 'h' 4 times
>>>>> to browse the 4 headings, they will hear each heading twice after each
>>>>> keypress.
>>>>>
>>>>> How do you think I should handle this?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thank you,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>
>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>
>